Emily: Hi, I’m Emily Ladau
Kyle: And I’m Kyle Khachadurian
E: And you’re listening to another episode of The Accessible Stall
K: What are we gonna talk about today Emily?
E: We’re gonna talk about the Day Without A Woman
K: What’s that?
E: So apparently the organizers of The Women’s March are putting together a Women’s Strike on the International Women’s Day which is March 8th.
K: Hold on, I don’t mean to interrupt you but I actually totally do. Does that mean we’re not gonna be talking about Disability in this episode. Are we gonna go there?
E: I think, I think we’re doing it. I think after twenty something episodes, we’re breaking the mold.
K: You think we’re going there. Oh my gosh, it is a historic moment for The Accessible Stall, do go on!
E: Although I’m not gonna lie, I have some tangential points related to Disability.
K: We’re not gonna put that in there.
E: We do!
K: All right
E: It’s a Disability podcast
E: But today is not…Today is about humanity. And speaking about humanity I have to address the fact that I’m speaking about women’s issues with a dude.
K: What’s a dude?
E: You are
K: Oh my God, that’s right. Sorry, but it’s happening.
K: Here’s my privilege, here’s me checking it, there it goes.
E: To be fair Kyle and I had a long conversation and I put him through extreme vetting before we could have this conversation.
(“Buh-Bum Tsk” Drum Cymbal Clash)
K: And by that she means we talked about it for five minutes, realized it both bothered us and we realized it would make a good podcast episode.
E: Exactly! So here we are talking about “Day Without a Woman” which can essentially take three different shapes. So either you can force people to recognize your lack of presence by taking a day off of work, you can not go shopping unless you are purchasing products from a woman owned or a minority owned small business, or you can wear the color red in solidarity. Those are your three options, I don’t feel good about it.
K: Neither do I. Who wants to start? I think you should start because you are a woman.
E: I am in fact a female identifying human, yes. So I should preface this by saying I was a big supporter of everything done with the Women’s March. Um, supporter insofar as I supported the effort enough to spend time joining the ranks of people calling them out for not including Disability because I believed it was an important cause.
K: And you did very good work at that.
E: Aw, thanks Kyle!
K: By getting them to change their platform. You, you, you!
E: I was gonna say, “Me, me, me!” but other people too.
K: But mostly you
E: But other people too. But like also kind of me. But other people too. Anway, not the point of the show. So I was super here for the Women’s March. I think that was an extremely impressive demonstration of belief in social justice, and against Donald Trump by all accounts, I really believe that. So then when the Women’s March announced that there was going to be another major event, I really wanted to be here for it but I can’t get behind something that A) Plays off “Day Without Immigrants” Which…
K: …Actually meant something
E: Which is a really strong statement and also is so focused on privilege. It is something that privileged people can do. I mean, can I wear red in solidarity? Yes. But am I in solidarity with a display of privilege and people being able to expand that privilege to just take off and prove a point? I can’t get behind that.
K: I mean there’s nothing wrong with it, I mean, really. I mean, if you can afford to do it and you want to do it, go ahead. But there’s almost some irony in some sort of cosmic way about this march that was for you know, left leaning liberal-ish women and their supporters to show disdain for our current President turning around and saying, “Now this!” Meanwhile, there’s a lack of punch cause like Emily already said, it’s piggybacking off a thing that already happened which was, “A Day Without an Immigrant” Day. By the way, a day that people actually did lose their jobs for but felt that it was necessary to participate in. And it just like Emily, I don’t like throwing around the word “privilege” in a social sense because I think doing it too makes it lose it’s meaning. But it really is like a gross display of privilege without realizing it I suppose. Because 1, not everyone can afford to take off of work, and 2, you know if you can than your life probably isn’t that bad. I mean you know everyone has their problems but not everyone has the luxury of paid time off. And otherwise, what’s wearing red gonna do? Also, not shopping? You know, you might need something. It’s just not very well thought out.
E: You know, the thing that’s really getting me, and okay I lasted six minutes or so before mentioning Disability.
E: But the other thing too is that not everyone has a job.
K: Right, oh yes that’s a good point.
E: Not everybody has a job. And it’s often a disability issue.
K: I wanted to get mad at you for that but I couldn’t. I was getting ready to sigh deeply but you actually made a really good point.
E: Well i mean, so that’s the thing. Like, so “Day Without a Woman” I think that the concept had potential to be extremely powerful, but the three premises upon which it is based all necessarily assume that you have a job, have expendable money, or want to show solidarity for people who have a job and expendable money.
K: I mean, at least the Women’s March took place on a weekend.
E: You’re right, I wasn’t even thinking about that but you’re right, you know…
K: No, seriously.
E: Not having to take time off
K: There are people that work on the weekends like retail workers and such, and we understand that but you know, most people don’t. And so it’s a big, huge difference for then ty, “Oh, we’re all doing this big huge thing on a Saturday” Versus, “Oh, just take off, otherwise you’re not really a woman.” Or whatever, you know, whatever their argument is.
E: Yeah, and it’s just a strange feeling to me because on March 8th, I am going to wake up and I am going to need to get work done because if I don’t work, I don’t get paid. And can I afford a day without getting paid? Yes. Is working a privilege to me? Yes. And I don’t mean a privilege in a sense that “You are a privileged person.”
K: No, it’s not a social privilege but you’ve earned it. It’s a privilege! (unintelligible)
E: I value my job
E: Not to mention, it’s interesting because I work in an almost entirely female identifying office so that’s just sort of interesting to me. But I have not heard any of them say
K: Are any of them gonna?
E: No. Unless someone mysteriously goes missing on Wednesday which I highly doubt.
K: I mean even so, you’re…I would sooner call them and see if they’re sick before I would think that someone. I just think that this is just…You know what this is? This is the people behind the Women’s March riding off their own coattails. Their like, “Oh, we did this really amazing thing, what next? And we know International Women’s Day is coming up so what can we do in the limited time we have with that? And…
E: Yeah but they had limited time for pulling together the Women’s March and they…
K: No, absolutely
E: It was a powerful and well thought out even they put together. With the exception of Disability exclusion.
K: Yeah but I mean, honestly even with that, in the limited amount of time they had to put all that together? It started with one tweet. I mean, really. I mean, I’m not excusing the fact that they forgot disability, but if you could out such a massive protest together starting from one Tweet in such a short amount of time? Like, obviously you’re gonna make some mistakes, but that’s a lot. And I guess that’s sort of my frustration with it is that it’s like I know what they can do, it just seems so haphazard. It’s like, “Okay here’s our next thing!” I don’t know, it just seems all weird to me.
E: No, I feel that too. And also, I guess they’re trying to understand they’re trying to sort of juxtapose on the one hand with the Women’s March you felt this massive presence, and now they’re looking for a lack of presence. But the reality is you can show up for something, but by not showing up for something, as much as you’re making a statement, I think you’re also just sort of removing yourself from the situation. I can be totally off base about that.
K: I don’t think you are, I think that’s exactly right. They had a template letter that they expected you to print out and hand to your supervisor…
E: Oh the Women’s March team?
K: Saying, “Oh here you go bodd person, I won’t be here on March 8th!” And it was just this really chip on your shoulder…We’ll link it in the Show Notes, it was this really wordy like, “ I, Miss Woman Person will not be attending work today on this day, March 8th to observe the solidarity of the day without women.”
K: And it’s all well and good, but you know…
E: But there’s really something to be said about the fact that an action that you’re taking requires an absence notice.
K: Yeah but all that does. That’s not gonna make your employer look at you and go, “Oh my God, what a socially conscious employee I’ve hired, good for her!” They’re gonna go, “I guess she doesn’t want her job.”
E: I mean, No, I think that there are plenty of employers out there who will be on board because you know, they’re liberal minded and will support women taking a day off. But I also think there’s something to be said for showing up and not having to give a long drawn out reason, versus not showing up and having to give a long drawn out reason.
K: I agree.
E: I think I sort of already said that, but I think I just need to reiterate that point.
K: No, I agree completely. I think that if you’re gonna do it, if you’re gonna silently protest it should be silent throughout. You don’t have to make this grandiose…I mean, you can do whatever you want, I’m not telling people what to do. But I’m saying like, this is a silent form of protest, right. So why would make this grandiose gesture to your employer only to essentially take a day off? I mean, it does mean something don’t misunderstand, but I’m saying it was almost as if the protest was taking the day off and not the consequences of every woman taking the day off.
E: I also just don’t think that this is going to send as much of a message to the administration like at all in the same way that the Women’s March did. I mean, I could be totally wrong. We’ll see, come what may because we’re recording this on March 6th so we have not yet seen the effects of the day. But to be quite honest, I think that women who…whose absences that people like Donald Trump would notice are not gonna be the ones taking the day off.
K: No, I don’t think they would want to. In fact, I mean some of them probably don’t even know it’s happening.
E: Well yeah I mean for sure and that’s largely because this has not gotten enough media coverage.
K: I don’t think that that’s anyone’s fault though. I really do think that that’s part of it is because they’re sort of like, “Oh we got this massive following now what do we do with it?”
E: I just think that there were so many better things to do with it.
K: I don’t know, here’s me telling everyone that I’m a dude again if you don’t already know but like for an organization that organizes the Women’s March I think on INternational Women’s Day instead of celebrating a day without women, maybe you should celebrate all the accomplishments of women? I don’t know, you have this big powerful megaphone now on this giant soapbox, why don’t you use it to amplify the accomplishments of women? I don’t know.
E: No, I agree with you. And also, I feel the need to clarify I’m fully aware that I’m not one of the organizers of the event and I’m not out there doing the organizing work for this event. So I know that people will say that I don’t have a right to this opinion. And I know that people will also say that there are plenty of women who are going to participate in the Day Without a Woman Strike on behalf of those who can’t. You know what? I don’t want you to participate on my behalf! Do I want you to be my ally? Absolutely. Do I want you to do something for me cause I can’t do it, No. Just make your protest more inclusive.
K: And also, don’t…If your idea of protesting is on behalf of someone and not because you believe it, then really what good are you? If you don’t believe in what you’re protesting….Like I understand the legitimacy of protesting for those who couldn’t be there. I mean, you did the Women’s March for your Mom right?
E: Yeah, absolutely.
K: She would have been there. She couldn’t be there. If you’re protesting on behalf of somebody cause you know you think they’d like it or something like that, I mean you don’t really know what you’re doing! You’re just doing it because they do, and it’s like that’s not real.
E: I guess it was sort of, like I would rather the show of solidarity be showing up and being supportive of the individual than being like, “I’m marching for the bajillions of faceless women who I don’t know I am supporting!”
K: I mean, most social justice focuses on groups over individuals though. I agree with you 100%. In fact, I don’t think that there’s ever been something you’ve said on this show that I’ve agreed with you more than that right there. Honestly. But…
E: That’s interesting.
K: No I’m serious. But Social Justice focuses on groups over individuals. And they have to! Because otherwise, you know…
E: You can focus on the group without imposing your views
K: I don’t know about that. I mean, I agree with you in theory
E: You should be able to.
K: No you absolutely should be able to. But like, for example the Women’s March did not take very kindly to conservative women who didn’t like Donald Trump. Now I’m not saying that the Women’s March was a bad thing, no it was fantastic. But you know, that’s what happens. When you’re saying “Women’s March” you’re not really saying “Women,” if only because there were men there. You’re saying, “These particular people, of these particular kinds of women and their allies” So their men, and their boyfriends, and their husbands and their sisters, and people like that. But if you’re a women and not in that category, well they still don’t want you. And that’s fine, but then like don’t pretend to be All- Inclusive. And I’m bringing up conservative people to make a point. But I mean, they excluded Disabled people too until you told them about it. So like, they’re just a two groups we can name right now but I’m sure there are very many other kinds of women somewhere.
E: Well I would say that “The Day Without a Woman” is extra exclusionary because now it’s not just a couple of groups that they’re leaving out, it’s people of every race, gender, skin color, sexua orientation, because anybody for any reason who might want to show support for “Day Without A Woman” could be in a position were they can’t.
K: And in fact, you know it’s funny you mentioned a lot of different intersections of privilege and that’s you know, very good of you. And you didn’t mention the one that affects everyone the most: socioeconomic privilege. The amount of money that you have, and the amount of social clout that you have doesn’t care about your gender identity, doesn’t care about your sexual identity, doesn’t care about your race, doesn’t care about any of that.
E: Well see that’s what I was getting at though, I’m saying anyone from any group can be impacted.
K: Yeah I’m sorry I didn’t mean for it to sound like I was disagreeing with you.
E: No I know. I just wanted to clarify like I think that any person who is female identifying from any minority group or not minority group whose impacted by socioeconomic status. You could be a straight, cisgendered, White woman and be poor as all get out working three part-time jobs to support your family as a single mother…
K: Right, and you wouldn’t be able to participate in this because you can’t afford to take the day off.
E: Yeah so it’s not even so much like this is excluding one group, this is excluding people from every group.
K: And in fact, the only people that can participate in it are you know, can’t predict the future but probably in all honesty, need it the least. Sort of ironic in that way.
E: I’m just trying to think of other social actions that I’ve felt this strongly about in awhile. I mean, I felt strongly about the Women’s March but that was for a reason that I think was mostly positive. I just wanted to see positive change to what I thought was a good event. But this one, I’m just not sure if I can see any way that you can spin it where it’s not somehow a damaging mentality to people.
K: Yeah, I completely agree with you. Because for example like “The Day Without An Immigrant” was to prove that there are immigrants you know legal status notwithstanding, that do all kinds of jobs that born here Americans just don’t like, just don’t want to do. And that day was to prove that the world needs them to exist. The gears in the world don’t turn without immigrants. I’m not saying women can’t do everything everyone else can do, but it’s a little different. Because there are all kinds of women in all kinds of positions. Not an overwhelming amount of women tend to do jobs that every other kind of person doesn’t like.
E: You know the other thing too is how can women who work in jobs where others are dependant on them, go on strike?
K: Oh you mean like a caretaker or something?
E: Oh, a caretaker, yeah! So whether you…
K: They would wear red, silly.
E: But you know, if you’re a doctor, do you have the privilege to take a day off? I guess, sure, money wise maybe. But like if you are a female neurosurgeon, are you just gonna say, “I’m so sorry I can’t remove your brain tumor today!”
K: Yeah, word seriously like, yeah yeah.
E: So that’s on the flipside of like people who are like super privileged, but are also doing their work to take care of the community.
K: And by the way, just before anyone tells…I can hear the people yelling at us now. “Oh, Emily, Emily those are absurd examples!” Yeah, but they’re real!
E: I don’t think a doctor’s example is absurd at all!
K: No, I know. I don’t think a woman would find that absurd. But you’re making up an example that is exaggerated to prove the point that you’re trying to make.
E: Oh, sure.
K: But I’m saying, those situations are real. That’s not an absurd example, there very well could be a woman neurosurgeon somewhere that wants to participate in this and can’t, you know?
E: Yeah. And also I think I read something about how an entire school is shutting down in North Carolina for the day because all of the teachers are striking. And you know what, I have been in school when teachers were threatening to strike for contractual reasons, you know financial reasons, not for reasons of gender identity and solidarity. But even so the entire tone of the school when the teachers were protesting I guess if you want to call it that. One day they all wore black in protest…And I’m in elementary school, so I’m not thinking they’re protesting for their rights over here, I’m thinking someone died and I should be upset.
K: RIght, but I mean if you’re in elementary school then it’s not for you to know.
E: Well sure, but I just worry, will it negatively impact the children, or will the teachers be able to wisely impart the reason behind their social justice action?
K: I think closing a school in the name of social justice is ridiculous. Depriving children of education is silly. I don’t care what your reason is, I don’t care if it’s a great reason or a terrible reason, you don’t deprive children of education because you believe something. They don’t control that, that’s absurd, they should be ashamed of themselves. Even if it is a good cause by the way.
E: Yeah sure, I agree with you completely. I think when your job is inconsequential to other people then I guess okay, take off. But then I also get that the whole point of this protest is to prove how consequential you are to people. But if you are that consequential, then what are you doing out?
K: RIght. And I guess people who are gonna argue against you would say, “Oh, well then you should wear red.” But I mean really, let’s be real here, what’s that really gonna do?
E: Or the not shopping. I am all about supporting minority and women owned businesses, but that’s everyday.
K: Yeah and I’m also about voting with your wallet and not buying things from companies you dislike, and buying things from companies you do like. But that’s every day, every single day no matter what. I don’t need a day that, I don’t need to be told to do that, that’s just something I do and that sounds like something you just do all the time too.
K: And not to take it away from the event that you know for women or people rather that don’t do that who maybe upon seeing it will start so you know, good for them. You know, not gonna take it all away from this. But I just, that portion to me sounds like common sense. And to me, that quite frankly sounds silly, so the one major part is the taking the day off, and like Emily said you know, if the entire job of the protest is to show how consequential you are, then by not being there, something falls apart which makes you look bad, and whatever you do, not work. It’s just a cyclicial thing where…And you know, here’s the thing too, if something does go wrong, your employer or your customers or the people who are impacted the most, they’re not gonna look at the big picture, they’re gonna look at you! They’re not gonna look at, “Oh this is a great day for women as a whole, I understand why you did this.” I mean some might. But your average disgruntled customer or your boss isn’t gonna you know thinking that you did a good thing, liberal or not. They’re gonna think you screwed up, you know what I mean? Am I making sense? Maybe I’m not making sense.
E: No, 100%. And also, you said the exact word that I was thinking which was, “cyclical.” There’s just so many ways that you can go around and around in a circle with the…I wanna say causes and effects but I don’t think that’s exactly what I mean, but something like that…
K: What do you mean? That sounds right.
E: So there’s cause for doing this and the effects of doing it.
E: It just seems like it all goes around in a big circle. And I tdon’t think it’s going to accomplish what they think it’s going to accomplish.
K: I don’t know what they think it’s going to accomplish
E: You know what, that’s more to the point.
K: I’m not saying that to be funny, I legitimately have no idea what their end goal is. And I didn’t with the Women’s March either but it doesn’t matter because something did come of that and the Administration at the very least took notice. So like that’s something? I have no idea what the end gain is for this one. I don’t
E: To recognize that women are indispensable.
K: Okay but…
E: I just don’t think that’s gonna spread the way they…
K: Okay, I agree. But I’m just gonna raise a thought experiment here if I may. The women and men and everyone in between who is likely going to, or even can’t but want to participate in this, I’ll even make the funnel wider. Let’s say you can’t take off but you want people to know you support this event. So you can’t take off but you wear red, right? Everyone in that camp aren’t the people who think women are disposable. Those people know how important women are to society
E: That’s what I was getting at, yeah.
K: Yeah those people understand the importance of women. The people who need to hear it most are the ones that don’t, and they’re gonna be the ones who think we’re a whole bunch of babies doing this.
E: I also have a silly point. Maybe not so silly actually. So the whole wearing red thing, I get that it’s like a set thing that people are supposed to do on a set day but I don’t know if this is just me, when I think of wearing red I think of the whole “Red Dress for..”
K: Project Red?
E: What is Project Red?
K: AIDS Awareness
E: Oh, I hadn’t heard that in awhile. But I was thinking like, The American Heart Association.
K: Oh, maybe.
E: Because they do the whole thing where you wear like a red dress or a pin in the shape of a red dress for like women’s heart health?
K: Okay, so I didn’t know that and Emily didn’t know what I was talking about. So that raises another point. And actually this can be applied to any organization that tells you to wear a color on a specific day for any reason is, you know if you don’t know, you don’t know. Two people looking at Emily and me wearing red might interpret it to determine two vastly different things. Or nothing!
E: Yeah, you’re right!
K: It could just be like, “Oh look, they’re wearing red!”
E: Yeah it’s like that all the time. I would say the only color that has managed to become ubiquitous in terms of association with a cause if you wanna call it that is pink, for Breast Cancer Awareness although I have many issues with how they’ve commodified that.
K: Well, Susan G. Komen is a terrible, terrible organization. But to their credit they sure did that exact thing! They absolutely did!
E: Yeah, now you can get like a pink door stopper.
K: “I’m helping!”
E: Yeah. And if you read the fine print you see that most of these things, most of the profits go to
K: No, of course not. I used to have Hershey’s syrup with a pink cap for breast cancer, I swear.
E: Oh my gosh, really?
E: See that’s the thing, what are you accomplishing? I know we’re getting a little bit off topic here but you know if one of the things that they want you to do is wear red, I don’t think that that’s accomplishing anything, you know? I just feel like it’s so…ugh, it’s so arbitrary!
K: Any of that color stuff is though in my opinion.
E: Oh absolutely, like who decided that Cerebral Palsy is green?
K: I have no idea, I would love to know but I don’t. You know like “Light it Up Blue” for Autism Speaks?
K: Now Autism Speaks is an awful organization, but like during that month I might where blue. I don’t like them you know but it’s not my fault if I wear something blue during that month and you think I support them.
E: You know that’s funny you say that because that may be the only other color that’s managed to somehow become ubiquitous in terms of like connection with a cause.
K: You’re right. But I would say that even that doesn’t hold a candle to pink with Susan G. Komen.
E: Yeah, there’s a certain shade of pink that if you wear it then I’m like relatively sure that it’s a Breast Cancer related thing.
K: That they might be able to sue you? Oh.
E: No, no. I don’t think they can sue you, I just think that I just associate a very specific shade of pink with Breast Cancer Awareness.
K: Yeah that pale like sorta
E: Yeah, exactly. But I don’t associate blue with Autism Speaks because blue is my favorite color and I hate Autism Speaks so I wear blue because I want to and not because I want to support Autism Speaks.
K: Right. And you might wear red and not at all like the Women’s March people, you might be one of those people who just likes the color red.
E: Or you just like woke up and put that shirt on.
K: Yeah. You know even if you do you might be someone who supports the Women’s March people and not even know this is happening.
E: I think we’re pointing to a broader issue here, so on the one hand it sounds like how we’re talking about it, a little bit can be construed as that wearing a specific color in support of a cause is kind of like a Slacktivist thing to do.
K: It absolutely is.
E: Okay. To be fair though if the only thing you are physically capable of doing is to wear a color because maybe you can’t show your financial support, or maybe you can’t participate in an event but you want to wear a color. I don’t think that’s Slacktivism.
K: You’re right, no you’re right. Sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt you but I just wanted to make it very clear that that’s a very specific case and I’m not talking about those people.
E: No, I’m glad you clarified. That’s an important thing to clarify. At the time, it seemed like the only action was to wear red in solidarity? Like, are you a Slacktivist? Or are you someone who wishes they could be participating and is being excluded? I mean either way, neither one is good.
K: I mean it’s like when a tragedy happens and everyone changes their Facebook profile to the thing. Like, “I’m helping!”
E: Oh my God
K: It’s the exact same thing. And look, I know it makes you feel good. But you’re not doing anything we both know that.
E: It’s like the Dakota Access Pipeline where one day someone decided to sen it around social media…
K: Oh that the cops were using Facebook.
E: Yes! That one!]
K: i think they actually were though, so I think that actually worked.
E: I read they weren’t
K: Oh, okay. I believe you over what I read. I believe you over the internet
E: Well i specifically found an article that said that was just a bunch of Lefist Hoo…
E: I was just gonna use the word “hooey!”
K: That’s really funny!
E: Um, but yeah so I just feel like everybody wants to help but are we actually helping?
K: I don’t think…Like, in a perfect world…You know, women make up about half of The United States population, right? So in a perfect world, half of employees would be working-ish. I don’t think that helps anything. I understand the point it’s trying to make, I really do. I just don’t think it’s going to make it. I don’t. And I’m not saying that…
E: I also think that we could be eating our words in a couple days so…
K: I hope we do. I hope we do. We’re gonna put this up on that and I hope you listen to it and I hope that on March 9th you go, “Oh these idiots were wrong!”
K: No, I’m serious I swear. I hope that we’re completely wrong and that this makes a huge impact, that it achieves what it wants because women are important things.
K: I said important things, “Aw Fu*k!”
E: Oh my God! The internet is coming for you, the internet is coming for you!
K: Hold on, hold on. “Because women are important people.”
K: I’m just gonna put that in there.
E: Oh my God, you should totally leave that in, that’s funny. Um, I guess the crux of it is that I’m not necessarily against the sentiment of what “The Day Without a Woman Go on Strike Team” is going to accomplish, and I’m not against the message they’re trying to get across. I just think that the way they’re doing it seems ineffective and vastly more exclusionary then they already were with the actual March.
K: I think it’s counterintuitive. I think the only people that can afford to do it are the people that need to know about it the least.
E: I’m really curious to see what happens
K: Yeah me too. And I also think that the people who need to learn about Women’s Issues are the people who are also going to think that this is all a bunch of Leftist Hooey, right? So I don’t know, I think…
E: That should be the name of this podcast, “Leftist Hooey”
K: “Leftist Hooey?” Oh, man that’s a great idea. No but I really think. I’m not gonna say that there’s a right way and a wrong way to do Activism, but I think that if there were The Women’s March would be the right way, and this would be the wrong way. I really do. I think that one was like telling the country and I also think that the entire world was helping us tell our country. I’m sorry, the entire Western World. Yeah, was also telling our country they didn’t approve of our new Administration
E: No I think there were Women’s March on all seven continents.
K: Oh that’s right, there was even some in Antarctica, I stand corrected because there were. And the world was telling the United States, “We’re here for you.” And we were telling the Administration that we didn’t like them, and that was great and we did it peacefully, and it was, you know the hats were a bit silly but what are you gonna do? I mean you know, it sent a message, it was important.
E: The hats were pretty arbitrary too. Like I’m not gonna wear a pussy hat on my head to prove a point…
K: No but the March
E: But I have nothing against them.
K: Right, exactly. And I have nothing against someone who wants to wear red to support a day without women. However, I would be remiss if I didn’t say that your local neighborhood misogynist could turn that around really quickly you know? “Oh, Day Without a Woman, good! I’m gonna wear red!”
E: Ha ha! Yeah…
K: I’m serious
E: You’re right, there’s a really quick way to make that into a negative thing. “Day Without a Woman? Cool. I didn’t miss ya anyway.”
K: Or you know, like the, “Nevertheless she persisted” thing” LIke that was great up until Jeff Sessions was confirmed for Attorney General and now no one’s saying it.
E: Except for the people who got it tattooed on their bodies which is…
K: Listen, people also got Bernie Sanders’ face tattooed on them. How do they feel now?
E: That’s unfortunate. You know that’s why I went with something like a peacock feather. That’s not a political symbol.
E: I will personally cut my own skin off if that happens. I don’t want this to be…
K: I don’t know man, I don’t know man, milk is now an Alt-Right Symbol so
E: I know, right?
K: Because we drank milkshakes last week, we’re literal Nazis.
K: Oh well.
E: Those were such good milkshakes!
K: Yeah, anyway um. I don’t know what our Final Takeaways are. Good in theory, bad in practice? I guess? I don’t know, we’ll see.
E: I think that’s about as simple as you can get. Look, I don’t want anyone to think, I mean assuming that people listened to towards the end of this. We’re not here to attack what in theory is a good effort and an important message. What we are here to do is dissect the issues behind it that make it problematic.
K: I’m just skeptical. That’s really all I am. I think that this is gonna feed into itself. I think that you know, the people behind the Women’s March are gonna feel some grand sense of achievement because of this no matter how it turns out, and hopefully they’re gonna use it to make something else good, you know? If this is just a stepping stone to their next big thing, I’m all for it. But somehow I remain skeptical.
E: I think this is their next big thing though. And you know, I think that sometimes trying to accomplish the next big thing is sometimes at the expense of trying to accomplish the next effective thing.
K: I would rather be a part of an effective thing that was smaller though, you know? I would! Cause effects are what matters. I don’t know. Again, me and Emily both agree that we would love to be proven wrong. So here’s to hoping!
E: Exactly We’re not here to put anything down, and we’re obviously both here for
K: Women’s Rights?
E: Equality. Human Rights.
K: Equity, equity.
E: Yeah, equity is a better word than equality, you’re right.
K: Equality is an ambiguous term!
K: Maybe that’s a future episode? Maybe.
E: Ooh, I like it!
K: No, seriously
E: Stay tuned for more!
K: Yeah. Anyway um, tell us what you think if you’ve listened this far.
E: Yeah. Here’s a particular issue…I mean, I’m always really curious to hear what people listening think, but I feel like this issue in particular is one that everyone has some kind of opinion on, and I’m curious to hear what they are because sometimes I’m on board with things and then someone like smacks some sense into me and I’m like, “Oh, oh I should not be on board with this.”
K: Yeah, the other way around happens all the time too!
E: But also, I’m just gonna say I will hear out other people’s perspectives on this but I’m pretty firm on feeling that this is just a display of privilege.
K: It could still…no…
E: If I’m proven wrong when it happens, then great
K: It doesn’t have to be a bad…just because something is a display of privilege doesn’t mean it’s a bad thing. I agree with you but I’m more than willing to hear any argument, for or against. You know, convince me. Because right now, I’m firmly in the middle. I just think it’s counterintuitive because it is a display of privilege.
E: I’m less in the middle of the road than you are.
K: Really? What side are you on?
E: Closer to the, “I don’t think people should do this.” side.
K: Oh, I don’t think people should do it either but I think the message behind it is fine.
E: I’m middle of the road when it comes to the message, I’m more towards against it when it comes to the means.
K: Yeah I agree with you. For once. This is a weird episode
E: Very weird
K: We didn’t argue. I think we’re on the wrong show!
E: You know what? Feminism. Something we can all agree on.
K: That’s a word!
E: Assuming that we define feminism as seen in the dictionary and not like some people define it.
K: Oh! Very, very good. Aw man, I knew I picked the right person to do this show with.
K: No, I’m serious. You laugh
E: Um, by the way, just a fun moment for all the people who’ve listened to us until the end, I’m just gonna assume that you probably listened to us before, so you might appreciate this little fun fact of Accessible Stall Trivia. Today is the one year anniversary of the day we conceived this idea.
K: Yes! Um, Happy…Conception-iversary
E: (Laughs) Stall-iversary? Podcast-iversay? Pod-iversary
E: There should be cake.
K: We’re gonna go eat cake
K: Goodnight everybody
E: Goodnight everyone, thanks for listening