The Accessible Stall

[START OF TRANSCRIPT]

E:                                             Hi, I’m Emily Ladau.

K:                                             And I’m Kyle Khachadurian.

E:                                             And you’re listening to another episode of the Accessible Stall.

K:                                             What are we going to talk about today, Emily?

E:                                             Well, we’re going to try again to talk about coronavirus because we literally recorded an episode a week ago and it’s already irrelevant and out of date.

K:                                             Not even kidding. Everything we said is just not true anymore.

E:                                             Well, I think there are some aspects of it that are true still, like the general sentiments of the disability community.

K:                                             That’s true. I will be talking about my grandma again.

E:                                             Yes. Although they don’t know you talked about her to begin with

K:                                             They do now.

E:                                             Hi, Nana.

K:                                             Hello. Hope you’re okay.

E:                                             So anyway, how are you holding up in your self-imposed social distancing?

K:                                             I will look for any excuse not to leave my house when there’s no pandemic coming around, so the fact that there is just gives me more validation to keep doing what I’m doing. However, I don’t want anyone to hear that I’m taking this in jest. This is extremely serious. I’m just… this doesn’t really impact my particular life that much yet.

E:                                             I think I’m more frustrated at how many people are not taking it seriously.

K:                                             Amen.

E:                                             To be honest, I can usually take the attitude of like, oh, whatever happens, happens, but this has not been super great for my mental health, to be honest. I’m a little stressed.

K:                                             I don’t know if I would say that I’m particularly stressed yet, but I totally am. I’m leaving my job at the end of the month. I’m going to lose my source of income, which was… it’s a kick in the face because it was a totally voluntary choice. I didn’t get laid off or anything. I chose to do this. Thanks, Obama. Has that joke passed its prime yet?

E:                                             I think expired milk.

K:                                             I know he’s not president. No, but it’s just like a perfect storm of unfortunate circumstances. But, my mom, she’s pretty stressed out, although she’s also like… you ever seen like a TV show or a movie with a hacking scene and it’s like these seven screens around you on a swivel chair and 17 keyboards? She’s got that, but with data tracking the coronavirus. Obviously she hates it, but she’s really into the spectating aspect of it.

E:                                             I don’t want to be into the spectating aspect of it, but I feel like I’ve not really had a choice because I’m trying to keep up with the news for my own education. On top of that, in one of my jobs as editor in chief of Rooted in Rights, I am getting pitches left and right about the coronavirus. I’m being inundated with the disability perspective that is largely missing from mainstream media and I’m happy to help fill that gap, but it’s also feeling like a lot, to be honest.

K:                                             You want to talk about that?

E:                                             Yes, I think there’s just so much that disabled people need to be discussing. A lot of it is around the fact that first of all people are still saying, oh, if you’re young and healthy, it doesn’t matter. Okay, what if you’re young and disabled?

K:                                             Yes. It’s like, we can hear you.

E:                                             Yes, there is my first question. Then my other question is, okay, so all of these accommodations that you’re now putting in place because you reached this emergency breaking point are suddenly the standard, but what about when it was just disabled people asking for those accommodations? Huh?

K:                                             I was actually saying something very similar to this over dinner tonight with my family. I really do appreciate that all of these companies are making accommodations for their workers, but I was saying that as great as that is, I don’t think that corporations deserve credit for basic human decency and basic, basic accommodation. I mean, really, I’m glad they’re doing it, but I don’t think they’re doing it out of the goodness of their heart. I think they’re doing it because they realize finally that there are certain things that they can afford people that don’t actually impact their employees’ ability to do their jobs. I think, if nothing else, that will be the one good, if you could call it that, thing that comes from this.

E:                                             I certainly hope that that’s an outcome in that we’re going to start having conversations about the ways in which we can implement these things like work from home or classes online so that it’s a more regular thing, but I hate that, first of all, it getting to this point and second of all, I can’t shake the feeling that as soon as coronavirus is finally out of the news, that people are going to go right back to not taking things like the need for accommodations and healthcare and better pay structures for workers and small businesses and things like that seriously. Like it’s just all going to go out the window.

K:                                             I don’t think it should take a pandemic to be decent. I think if you can’t afford to be decent, you can’t afford to be in business. I’m not saying that every business can’t;obviously it’s their job to make money, but I think that you can do that without the cost of human decency. If you can’t, then… sorry.

E:                                             Well, and I also think we have to acknowledge that there are definitely jobs that can’t be done remotely. I understand.

K:                                             Yeah. Service industry jobs, construction jobs, anything that involves needing to be somewhere to actually do the laborious part of your job. Hospital workers, teachers. Although that’s changing.

E:                                             I really appreciate that so many places are taking it seriously, but we recorded our original attempt at the coronavirus episode on March 9th and then the following day I feel like we woke up and everything was being canceled.

K:                                             It was like a NCAA. That was, I think, was it the day or the day after New York band, like gatherings more than 500 people? [00:07:03 inaudible] shutdown.

E:                                             It was around there. I think it was before, but then I remember when we were recording, I was still worried because the following day I was supposed to go into the city for an event on accessibility and you were going to come with me. I was all stressed out about it because I was like, do I go, do I not go? I have a commitment and you were going to meet me there and it was going to be cool, but then when I emailed them being like, “Hey, I’m a little concerned,” they were like, “We have Purell Stations aplenty. It’ll be fine.”I was like, okay, and then maybe a few hours later I actually saw that they canceled the event on Facebook and I was like, hmm… Then I got an email, and it was like, yeah, we’re rescheduling to June.

                                                On the one hand, I’m really glad that the decision was made for me, but on the other hand, it’s a bummer because so many things that I was working on have been canceled or postponed or pushed out. But I feel like it needs to be said that this is a reality for disabled people very often where they have to make the choice not to go to something to honor their bodies or we work from home or we figure things out. Everyone else is throwing a fit about it; meanwhile, this is like our reality.

K:                                             It’s so cute. It’s like, oh, you mean to tell me that before this it was completely unthinkable for someone to be able to do their job at home? Or you can’t believe that you’re having trouble going to the grocery store, not because you can’t actually go in there but because everything’s sold out? I mean that’s not exactly the same thing as not being to go in there, but the effect is the same. You don’t have any groceries. That reality for you was completely foreign and just alien to you until this, and now it’s like, what are we going to do? We’re just sitting here like, what are we going to do? Exactly.

E:                                             I was also reading an article. I have to find it, something about how “young and healthy” people aren’t taking things seriously, but imagine the terrible fate of having 20 to 30% reduced lung function or needing to go to physical therapy for four months now.

K:                                             Oh no.

E:                                             I was like, I have asthma and I get physical therapy three times a week. Shut up.

K:                                             Okay, let’s be a little decent. I completely agree with you. Just off the top.

E:                                             Obviously, you know that I’m fooling around?

K:                                             No, I know. I just want to point that I’m with you. Every time I’m out and about and I hear somebody complain that their feet hurt, I just want to scream at them. I don’t because I’m a civilized human being, but I really want to. What about if you’re someone who’s disabled that has like a PCA that has to stay home or that can’t afford to stay home? Neither of those are good. I don’t want this episode to be mostly about the ways that this will impact disabled people more, although we should talk about it, but I do want this episode to point out the flaws in society that people like us have been shouting about for a while, that everyone now is just starting to wake up to because of a pandemic. Ithad to get to a pandemic. The whole world had to be like, oh wow, yes.

E:                                             I feel like this needs a trigger warning on it. This whole episode does, but this in particular. There was an article in the New York times the other day by a group of medical ethicists, and it was essentially talking about what would happen if the pandemic got so out of control that we basically had to start rationing healthcare because we’re just too under equipped to accommodate the number of people who were sick. It all but said we have to determine whose lives are worth saving and whose aren’t. Nothing like a pandemic to amplify the ableism that is always there. The belief that certain lives are more worth living than other lives is…

K:                                             Counterpoint. I’m not going to defend that. I think that’s horrible, but I would argue that at least in this country, healthcare is already like that.

E:                                             Oh it absolutely is, but I think that we do a good job of denying it to ourselves.

K:                                             Oh yes.

E:                                             Collectively, not us.

K:                                             I know, yes. 100%.

E:                                             But to see it in writing, to see people who count themselves as ethicists to basically say that there are some lives that are worth being saved and others that don’t really matter in the grand scheme of things and should be let go for the sake of the greater good is the kind of eugenics language that is scary to hear.

K:                                             Yes, because we know where we are.

E:                                             Yes. I’m aware that I’m the person you don’t give a shit about.

K:                                             I understand too that if you’re an ethicist, especially a medical one, that that’s literally your job. I’m sure it’s not easy, but you’re right. You don’t want to hear that. That’s not good.

E:                                             I guess the harder question to grapple with is, what is the solution then? If you really do not have the right amount of equipment, what is the solution? I feel hope right now still that it’s not going to get to the point where we have to ask ourselves that question, but if people don’t take this seriously, it’s going to get to that point. I think we need to be able to talk openly about these fears and these concerns.

K:                                             I agree. I also agree with you. I don’t think we’re at that point yet. With any luck in the world, we won’t be, but I think stuff that we’re doing is helping a lot, like isolating yourself socially. It sucks, but I would say that it’s necessary, as much as I hate it. Whether it’s necessary because we just don’t have– we don’t want to overwhelm our hospitals or whether it’s necessary because it’s the best course of action, that’s a different conversation. But I think if it’s helping, and I think as far as anyone knows, it is, especially in mainland China where apparently as of today, and I’m going to say today is March 14th, but as of today, the amount of new cases in the ground zero of the world, Wuhan,China, is below 10, which is cool. I don’t know. I really don’t know what the best thing to do is. I know that nobody’s probably doing what anyone would consider enough.

E:                                             Well, I think there are people who are trying to compensate for the people who are not doing enough.

K:                                             Yes. Well, I think that if you’re not taking this seriously, that you’re just ignorant. Whenever I hear or see anybody in real life or on Facebook or whatever, say like, oh, it’s just like the flu. It’s like, it’s really not. I don’t know if you’re watching too much news that has been simplified to make the majority of people understand that, but it’s like, it’s really not like the flu. It’s nothing like the flu, and you shouldn’t treat it like it. Or even someone like my grandmother. Jesus, she’s so vulnerable. She’s an unhealthy woman in her late seventies. I love my grandma, but like I said on the last episode, although this piece of information, it wasn’t irrelevant, but she shared information that at the time the information was created was true, but she shared it much later.

                                                It was a piece of information comparing the mortality rate of the influenza to the mortality rate of the coronavirus at the time. At the time, the mortality rate of influenza was larger, and it was. This was a fact, but by the time she shared it – which I’ll give her a little credit, it was only like a couple of days later – it was no longer true. But she didn’t know that because the data was correct. It wasn’t fake news, it was true. It’s just that it’s moving too fast, and she used that as a reason not to worry.

E:                                             Yes, and that’s the big problem with keeping up with social media and maybe not necessarily being able to differentiate between the current nature and the validity of different resources. I know that that’s a thing that people who are perhaps younger and more social media savvy are just more used to. I feel like I’ve seen enough young people sharing misinformation too that I’m…

K:                                             Oh, absolutely.

E:                                             Honestly, I don’t think this is an age thing. I don’t even think this is a partisan thing anymore. I just think that there are people who are being extremely ignorant in every generation and of every political affiliation.

K:                                             I want to point out the reason that I brought up my grandmother’s age is just because she’s squarely in the demographic that we know this is the most serious to right now. It has nothing to do with the fact that she’s savvy or not savvy with technology, although she is probably, I would say, above average savviness for her age group. I also will say, I’m going to brag a little bit. The County of New York that I live in, as of this second, has no confirmed cases, so I’m just waiting for the shoe to drop.

E:                                             Yes, I actually noticed that as well. I thought that you don’t have any in your county. That is not true in my county.

K:                                             I know. That’s why I’m saying it. I don’t care if these people know. I want to just brag to you.

E:                                             I read an article also that hit a little too close to home, although who knows what ended up happening because this was already like a week ago. There was an article saying that a woman who lives three towns over for me and is a teacher was still thinking of going on a cruise. She had booked… and I’m thinking to myself, you are way too close to me and you will have exposure to way too many children for this to be okay. I really hope they chose not to take the cruise.

K:                                             Can we just agree–? Oh, sorry, go ahead.

E:                                             Nope, that’s it. I’m just mad at it.

K:                                             I was just going to say, can we just agree that cruises are literally the worst thing to ever happen to humans?

E:                                             You know? Yes.

K:                                             Like, think about it. They ruin the earth. They’re expensive. You go on a boat, you get food poison, you’re around strangers, and if one of you gets sick, the whole boat gets sick and you’re in the middle of the ocean.

E:                                             Has anybody heard of Titanic?

K:                                             Have you ever heard of a good cruise story in your life? Because I genuinely, bottom of my heart, I’ve never heard of anyone that went, “Oh, it was so fun.” It’s always, “It was cool, but…”

E:                                             Kind of. Yes. I mean my parents took a cruise for their honeymoon. It was the only cruise they took. They were seasick the entire time.

K:                                             See what I’m saying?

E:                                             Literally just laying there eating saltines and drinking ginger ale and watching the boat rock back and forth and the curtains swinging side to side. Then my mom had vertigo for weeks after. So like, I’m glad if you like cruises, but why? Why? No good comes of it.

K:                                             Yes. Honest to God, no good. But see, stuff like that… or that man who got on a plane knowing that he tested positive for coronavirus.

E:                                             Although I was trying to verify the facts on that because did he get the notification after they landed or did he already know? That was what I didn’t know.

K:                                             From what I understand, the guy already knew. I was skeptical about that too, but the reason that I’m fairly sure about that at this point is because the airline banned him for life. I don’t think they would have done that if he went on the plane not knowing…

E:                                             Did they really?

K:                                             Yes, Jet Blue ban that man from flying for life.

E:                                             Holy moly.

K:                                             On Jet Blue. I think that man should be put on a no fly list, but whatever.

E:                                             I kind of…

K:                                             If you don’t know, I’m not going to knock on you, but if you’re aware, you’re a scumbag.

E:                                             I try so hard not to be angry at people who make ridiculous decisions, but perfect example: I read an article in the New York Times about a guy who hoarded thousands upon thousands of hand sanitizer bottles so that he could sell them at a markup. But then Amazon banned him, so now he’s just stuck with all this stuff that he can’t sell. That guy sucks. I would like him to know how much he sucks, but someone also pointed out that it’s not even that we should be mad at this guy, but we should be mad at the bigger systems that cause stuff like this.

K:                                             I agree, but I think that guy sucks. That guy is exploiting fear. That very well could be the fault of the underlying economic system we all find ourselves having to live within. Very true. But that guy sucks. I think they can both be true.

E:                                             Also, I just double checked. You’re right. Not that I doubted you, but CNN said that they banned that passenger.

K:                                             Yes. I still don’t think they explicitly stated whether or not he knew before or after he got on the plane, but I don’t think that that would have happened if he didn’t know while he was flying.

E:                                             Right. If it was like, oh my God, you turned your phone off of airplane mode and you got this horrible notification and you notified everybody, then not your fault. Terrible situation,but not your fault. Oh my gosh. It’s public, so we can link it. A friend of mine who is… I think she’s missing her right forearm, or perhaps missing is not the right word. Limb different is the correct terminology. She put all of her prosthetic hands and arms in a sink and goes, am I doing this right? For like wash your hands.

K:                                             That is really funny. I look, wash your hands or your feet or whatever limbs you use to touch things in your daily life. Just, please, if you can. If you can’t, find someone who can. It’s really important. I mean for real. I know that that points yet to another flaw for people with disabilities, like accessible bathrooms or people like PCA as I mentioned earlier, who may or may not be able to take care of you because they may or may not be taking care of themselves, but to the best of your abilities, please, please, for your own sake.

E:                                             Well, this actually reminds me very much of another thing I remember we talked about when we recorded previously was the very basic disabled people have to touch extra surfaces, and often it’s really difficult to wash our hands because we can’t reach the freaking sink.

K:                                             Yup. I mentioned I have a friend who’s a little person, and she was like, you want me to wash my hands wherever I go? That’s fine. I can do that as soon as you make all the bathrooms accessible.

E:                                             I mean, yes, I would really love to clean myself to the best of my ability, but the reality is that I often have to touch grab rails in the bathroom and I often have to lean more heavily on different surfaces. Obviously, I try to clean up after myself, but I notice other people don’t. Public bathrooms are always disgusting, but disabled people have to bear the brunt of that because, especially for a woman or for someone with a vagina. We can say it, we don’t need to gender it. They can just like squat to pee. For someone with a penis,they can, unless they have a disability that precludes them from doing so, can stand to pee so there’s a lot fewer services that you have to touch. But I can’t do the whole squatting thing. I have to touch everything. Sorry if that’s too real, but come on.

K:                                             But that’s the point of this episode, isn’t it? I don’t think the average person, and I am very much generalizing here, but I really don’t think the average person realizes how much that they touch in a day. We do, we have to, but I would say even, I don’t think we understand it all the time. We touch a lot of things. It’s just everything is gross.

E:                                             Yes. Like you grab stuff for balance all the time.

K:                                             All day, every day, and I don’t even think about it.

E:                                             This was the one thing I was actually thinking about is, they showed a clip of Trump giving a press conference or whatever, and they asked him, why are you still shaking people’s hands? He was like, it’s a reflex. I was like, I hate you so much, but you’re absolutely right.

K:                                             Yes, no, no. Look, I love to make fun of him, but yes.

E:                                             He’s not wrong. He’s a human being. I think, like everyone else who shakes hands, it’s just like a reflex. It just happens, unless of course you have a disability that precludes you from doing so. I had to bring my mom to the doctor the other day, and the doctor held out his hand and was like virtual handshake. He didn’t actually take our hands.

K:                                             As of right now, there are news reports of heads of state and their spouses testing positive. It sounds very scary, and it is, but if you’re scared of that, just remember that these people shake more hands in a day than you do in a month. That doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t matter that they have tested positive. It just means that due to their nature of what they do, they’re way more likely to be exposed than the average person. Having said that, as much as I hate that guy, I think the president and the vice president and even Mitch McConnell should really, really, really lock themselves in their respective offices and do their jobs as much as they can without moving as much as they can.

E:                                             Set an example.

K:                                             Yes. I know we love to make fun of him, but I swear to God. You think it’s bad now, not that he’d ever admit it, but if Trump tested positive, that would be bad.

E:                                             There’s a really good article on GQ, and even the title, I love it. It’s Your Rugged American Individualism is Making You Dangerous, and then the author tweeted, she was like, stop being selfish and stay at home.

K:                                             That is so great. We’re going to put that in the show notes, but we’re going to do that just because I want to read it. That’s really good.

E:                                             Excellent. Then on top of that, her quotes were just spot on. There was one part where she said, I wish more Americans were respectful of biology and its demands, but of course that would require more Americans to be respectful of the fact that science is a real thing and that this is not a hoax. Like some people think climate change is a hoax.

K:                                             You know what’s so funny about that?

E:                                             What?

K:                                             I have unfortunately more than zero people that think that this is a hoax, but it’s not that many. But the relation of people that think this is a hoax that I know is not correlated to the people that think climate change is a hoax. It’s so funny. When the CDC says, oh, you got to wash your hands or you might get this thing and it could potentially kill you, even if it’s like a one in a thousand chance or whatever. I made that number up. Don’t take that seriously, but like a small chance. Everyone’s like, oh my God, I got to wash my hands. I got to stock up on toilet paper. I got to stock up my hand sanitizer. When the entire global scientific community says, hey, humans caused climate change, Americans by and large are like, this is just a ploy by the big map industry and the Democrats to sell globes. It’s like, or maybe 98% of the world isn’t wrong about something. I don’t know why it’s such a difference except for the fact that I suppose you can feel it, but I just… it’s very interesting to me. It’s like that one week, a couple of years ago, when we had to throw out all our lettuce because of Ebola. Everyone was like, oh yeah, sure, goodbye, but climate change is like, that’s all bullshit.

E:                                             I feel exasperated but optimistic.

K:                                             I agree. I will say that if you are somebody that thinks this is a hoax, we understand your cry for help and your call not to be a member of society anymore. Like we get that’s what you want. Unfortunately, you’re stuck here with the rest of us, and even more unfortunately, you’re putting the rest of us in danger. So if you could just give your bunker–

E:                                             Wait, I’m very confused. We understand your cry for help, but…

K:                                             Yes, because clearly these people don’t want to be part of society. They’ve made that clear. I’m making fun of them and I don’t think that they’re pretty cool.

E:                                             You can see where my mind is at. I can’t even comprehend humor anymore.

K:                                             No, but in all seriousness, this is serious. A lot of the things that are currently being implemented are very common sense procedures that up until very recently, because of the spread of this pandemic, people with disabilities have been crying for forever, and they’re not even unreasonable. I just think it’s funny how, when it affects you, that’s when you care. It’s as if you don’t understand– you, like not Emily, not me, but you don’t understand empathy until it affects you or someone you love directly. Up until then, it’s like a completely foreign idea, how someone could need something that you don’t need,and then it’s like, oh, of course.

E:                                             It’s also amazing to me because I have never thought that disabled people were unreasonable as a fellow disabled person, and now seeing other people being like, oh…

K:                                             I know, right?

E:                                             “Oh yeah.” Like, come on. In conclusion, how about we just watch cute animal videos all day?

K:                                             I saw this one last night of a little duckling taking a bath in a sink.

E:                                             Practicing good hand washing…

K:                                             And it was just… you know baby ducks don’t quack? I didn’t know that. They chirp.

E:                                             I love baby animals. I watched a video of a fruit bat eating a slice of banana.

K:                                             I watched a video of some kind of bat eating a slice of watermelon, and it was like…

E:                                             Yes, exactly, exactly. Sorry if you don’t like mouth sounds.

K:                                             Oh yeah. Oops. That was thoroughly gross, if you’re one of those people.

E:                                             They also… I saw a video of a bunch of puppies all trying to get into the same little plastic bin.

K:                                             Puppies are silly.

E:                                             And a video of someone making their ferret do a little butt wiggle. I mean, send me all your animal videos is what I’m saying. Please.

K:                                             Final takeaways. Please wash your hands or the limbs that you interact with the world with.

E:                                             Also, check in on people. You can make a phone call or make a… text. Oh my God.

K:                                             Send a text, write a text, type of text, tell a text. That’s a thing. I don’t know.

E:                                             Send texts, phone calls, send phone calls. You know what I mean. Just, goodness gracious, check in on your fellow human beings

K:                                             And for the love of God, stop buying all the toilet paper.

E:                                             And wash your hands.

K:                                             How many slices do you need? How many sheets do you need? I’m waiting for an answer from the listener who can’t answer me because they’re not in the room.

E:                                             Because they hoarded the toilet paper.

K:                                             But I mean, honest to God, you do realize that anything can be toilet paper in an absolute emergency, right? Or you can jump in the shower. You know that right? You can’t eat the toilet paper. If you’re going to hoard anything, hoard the food. I mean, don’t hoard the food.

E:                                             I guess I can understand the concern is if you can’t leave the house, you don’t want to run out of toilet paper, so I get it.

K:                                             Jump in the shower. I know some disabled people can’t just jump in the shower. If you’re a disabled person, you’re hoarding all the toilet paper, Godspeed. I’m on your team. I’m just talking about everyone else.

E:                                             Take care of yourself. That is all.

K:                                             Good night, everybody. If you want to follow us on Twitter, you should. We post a lot of stupid stuff on there, but we’re pretty funny. You should like us on Facebook.

E:                                             I actually think we’re pretty normal on social media.

K:                                             That’s true. We are. We just post goofy photos of us, and some news of course.

E:                                             Well, not now we’re not because social distance thing, am I right?

K:                                             Yes.

E:                                             Wow. Kyle made that sound effect in real time, so I heard it.

K:                                             I saw an opportunity and I took it. What more do you want from me?

E:                                             Nothing. I want nothing more from you except you continue always hosting this podcast with me so that we can sort through our emotions on how the world may be ending together.

K:                                             This has been another episode of the Accessible Stall. I’m Kyle. She’s Emily.

E:                                             I am definitely Emily.

K:                                             Have you ever been Kyle?

E:                                             I’m Kyle.

K:                                             I’m Emily.

E:                                             And you’ve just listened to another episode of the Accessible Stall. Stay safe. Stay well. I was trying to give some encouragement before we told them they look pretty.

K:                                             Go ahead. Sorry. I thought you were done.

E:                                             Stay safe, stay well. Wash your hands. That’s it.

K:                                             And I always say you look great today. Except for your hands. They’re filthy. Wash them.

E:                                             Wash them. Love you. Bye.

K:                                             Good night, everybody.

E:                                             Good night.

[END OF TRANSCRIPT]

Intro Music 

E: Hi I’m Emily Ladau 

K: And I’m Kyle Khachadurian 

E: And you’re listening to another episode of The Accessible Stall 

K: What’s going on Emily? I feel like I haven’t talked to you since last year. 

E: Yeah! I mean we literally just had a conversation before this podcast and also everyday on Facebook Messenger. But you’re right, I haven’t seen your face since 2019. 

K: Publicly, we haven’t spoken since last year. 

E: Correct. And we haven’t seen each other in the flesh in a little while so…

K: But we will next week!

E: When we go to see Ryan J. Haddad’s new show and if you’re wondering who he is, you can go listen to our episode with him!

K: That was where he told us to go to his show. This is that show

E: Yeah we bought tickets! We’re good friends

K: Keep it in the family, right? Support Disabled Creators!

E: That’s real! You can support us on Patreon

K: By going to www.patreon.com/theaccesisiblestall Just $1 a month ensures that all currebt and future episodes of The Accessible Stall remain accessible. Please donate if you can, and you’re willing, and you’re able.

E: I gotta tell you, none of that was plan but it just sailed so smoothly.

K: How many times have I done that? It’s as natural as breathing

E: So many

K: Which is ironic because I am very sick right now so breathing is a bit of a chore. 

E: He is, he’s very sick, he’s been coughing, he’s stuffy. I’m actually so glad we’re not in the same room right now because he’s a little bit very contagious.

K: I am like a walking nuclear power plant about to explode

E: Accurate

K: I’m nothing like that. I don’t know why… that’s how I feel on the inside.

E: Understandable, relatable. The sickness has gotten to you. But are you feeling well enough to have a discussion about Disability because I know that’s your favorite thing to do?

K: I mean, it’s up there, it’s like genuinely top five. And I wouldn’t have been recording if I wasn’t. I think I’m not entirely sure, the jury’s still out on that. 

E: Well I mean, you took care of yourself, you asked if we could push off recording until you were not hacking up a lung. 

K: That’s true, that’s true but I actually almost did pass out walking today, I was very tired.

E: I wouldn’t know what that’s like, what is that like?

K: I don’t mean that literally. Have you ever just fallen asleep in your wheelchair and then just forgotten how you got where you are?

E: I’ve never fallen asleep sitting up. I mean, I’ve dozed. I mean, okay I guess that’s actually a complete lie because I fall asleep in the car all the time.

K: That hits different though. Car sleep, that’s powerful

E: But I’ve never just been sitting in my wheelchair in the middle of the room and fall asleep

K: That’s weird to me. I don’t know why that’s weird to me

E: Because my sitting is everyone else’s standing 

K: That’s exactly why it’s weird to me. But then again, I have never, ever fallen asleep standing and I feel like if I did I would probably go see a doctor

E: I really have seen people on the train who appear to have fallen asleep standing up because there aren’t any seats and it makes me nervous. And this is not a commentary on narcolepsy, like this is literally just people who are napping on a train that’s jerking back and forth. 

K: Yeah, that’s impressive to me. I mean I’m concerned but like, I don’t know, I can’t do that. 

E: Anyway, none of this has anything to do with what we’re actually going to talk about. We just wanted to have a bit of a catch up because it’s been awhile right? It hasn’t actually.

K: I mean not for us but for them, for us. 

E: That made sense

K: Yeah. What are we gonna talk about today?

E: There’s the question! So actually this idea was brought to us by our amazing wonderful beautiful human of a  transcriber, Annie

K: She’s gonna leave comments about what you just said in the comments section of the transcript when she gives it to me, now that you said that.

E: Fair, but non-negotiable. Annie’s great

K: She is, she is. 

E: And she suggested that we talk about Disability representation and Diversity in the toy industry. Because there was just that whole story on the new American Girl Doll. 

K: Can you fill me in on what that is? I know what an American Girl Doll is, just the story.

E: You mean you’re not up on your American Girl Dolls?

K: You know, I can’t say that I am. But I haven;t been living under a rock to not know what an American Girl Doll is. 

E: Actually, that kinda proves Annie’s larger point that there’s a lack of Toys that are “geared to young boys” that also have Disability Representation. So I think we should talk about that too, which of course raises the issue of “gendered toys.” But I do think that it’s interesting that we mainly see Disability Representation in terms of Dolls right now. And so the big story was that American Girl released a new doll, it’s their Girl of the Year,she’s a surfer, she’s from California and her name is Joss, and she uses  a hearing aid. So this is a big deal in representation because she’s got a cute little doll-sized hearing aid. 

K: Can I ask a silly question? 

E: Yeah

K: This super doesn’t matter to me, I’m just curious. Does it say the origins of her Disability? Because if I were to pick away I’d prefer her to be deaf. I think it’s cooler if she were born with her hearing loss, just because I think society in general is more accepting of Disabilities you acquire. This is a huge debate and one we’re gonna cover in the future. I just feel, being born this way, I feel like society is a little bit very broadly speaking more accepting of a Disability if you acquire it later. So I feel like if American Girl had mentioned it, that it would a little bit cooler if she were born deaf. 

E: So apparently she was born deaf. 

K: Nice!

E: She has congenital hearing loss, so she was born deaf in her left ear and she has just  a little bit of hearing in her right ear, so I think that’s interesting. And apparently American Girl has had previous dolls with Disabilities including dolls with a learning disability and a stutter but obviously those are not things you can depict on a doll. 

K: So do they only convey that in the story of the Doll that you are holding?

E: Yeah, yeah. I mean all of the Dolls have books and backstories that go with them, it’s a whole thing. 

K: Okay

E: So I guess this is a big thing in terms of visual representation. There also was the relatively recent release of Barbies of different races I believe who use wheelchairs as well, so it’s definitely been a good time for doll diversity. 

K: You’re making a little bit of a little bit of a face saying “Doll Diversity” but I like that, I think that’s a very natural first step to see physical differences in a toy. Like seeing it in Interactive Media like video games and movies and other stuff that we consume is kinda cool but like holding something that looks like you, I’ve never had that because I don’t have that type of Disability.  But when I was a kid I might’ve. I don’t know, I’m not one to play with dolls. when I used to walk with crutches, I think it’s cool now…I probably would’ve lost my mind. Sorry for the ableist expression. If I saw it as a kid.

E: What about like a GI Joe with a disability like a Veteran who acquired a disability? 

K: Oh see that’s weird to me. Not to say that it’s less weird in a doll versus action figure but just like the lure of  GI Joe, like him being such a…badass, right? Huh…But then again, you just said Veteran.

E: Can you not be a disabled badass?

K: No, of course you can, I just…well you just said Veteran which is like where I would imagine it. That doesn’t make you any less badass. 

E: Yeah I mean he’s an active army man

K: Yeah, that’s why it’s weird. Not ‘cause he’s disabled. 

E: Right and so realistically the Army is not exactly chomping at the bit to let disabled people in. 

K: Yeah.

E: I mean, one time a military recruiter called my house and asked to speak to me and my mom was like, “She uses a wheelchair.” And the guy was like. “Ohhhh…oh, bye!”

K: I mean…yeah

E: But really where are the… Ugh, I hate even  saying this, the more masculine gendered toys with Disability backstories? And i know that gendered toys is a debate in and of itself but for the purposes of this conversation, I hope that people understand we’re not trying to create a gender divide here. 

K: I think that everyone in our audience would agree with us but I also think that they know that traditionally “For girls” and things like cars and action figures are “For boys.” We know that’s nonsense, especially because…and I’m just gonna throw this one out here: Boys, will probably become fathers and fathers, check this out, take care of children! Especially theirs…especially as an adult. Why it’s weird when a little boy plays with a doll, because caregiving is a gendered idea, like people tend to associate it with women, but like, why? Fathers are a thing and like, they’re everywhere!

E: And this has been another episode of The Gender Stall! 

K: Well no! I just don’t think there’s anything wrong with…especially because like that’s, I don’t wanna say good training but like, how is a child supposed to know how to hold a baby without holding an actual baby? Use a doll, good!

E: Dolls are cool. Also but like what about adapted vehicle Matchbox Cars? Am I getting too silly here? I don’t think so.

K:  Oh man! Aw well okay, so Matchbox cars are supposed to be like the size of matchboxes…So if you could somehow fit like the details of hand controls adaptation, modification? I don’t know what the proper phrasing is. 

E: Either

K: If you could fit that in the mold of such a tiny car and like, pull it off I would buy so many of those! I don’t think you’re being silly, but the idea of it being that tiny is silly to me, but that’s not your fault. 

E: I think Hot Wheels Actually has an Aaron Fotheringham figurine. You know that guy who does tricks in his wheelchair on halfpipes or in the skate park? Clearly I’m showing my complete lack of knowledge about Skateboarding.

K: I never knew his name, but the fact that you can say his name and then know that he does that leads me to believe that he’s the only one or the only well known one, so now I know exactly who you’re talking about. 

E: Yeah Aaron “Wheelz” Fotheringham  and there’s literally a Hot Wheels wheelchair sold that’s branded for him. 

K: Nice. See, that’s cool, that’s really cool. 

E: But like, I want that. Why can’t I get that?

K: You can! Who says you can’t? 

E: Because gendered branding!

K:  You are an adult! No I totally here you…But you should get one! Smash the gender binary my friend! Buy your Hot Wheels!

(Emily chuckles)

 E: … But wouldn’t it just be cool if there was accessibility portrayed in toys? Not just disability diversity but also accessibility. 

K:  Any kind… Like I said, I think dolls are such a natural place to start. They’re small representations of real people. I will say that American Girl as a company is pretty ambitious and they’ve been known to do stuff like this, right?

E: Yeah. And also this is a big step because when I was little my parents got an American Girl Doll that was supposed to “Look Like Me” and that’s a lie in every conceivable way. But more to the point, the only way I think you could get a wheelchair for your American Girl doll was if you sent her to the Doll Hospital, which is a real thing that they  have where if your doll breaks and you send it to them… 

K: They’ll send it back to you in a wheelchair?

E: Something like that. It was very hospital deemed..It was medicalized. 

K: I can understand from a Disability lens why that’s really screwed up but just as a person, that’s super cool! Like they actually ship it back in a wheelchair? That’s super cool. 

E: I think I’m making that up. I think it was

K: I hope you’re not!

E: It was one of the things that you could get from the Doll Hospital.

K: Oh, Oh, I see…  

E: I clearly have not owned an American Girl Doll in a very long time. But none of the dolls who were supposed to look like me… I literally also got a doll called a “My Twin” Doll. Do you think she looked like me? No. 

K: Okay it is my mission in life to get you a custom made doll that looks like you. I did not realize that this was a thing. 

E: Oh my gosh, such a thing. And not to mention, the My Twin Doll, she had glasses, sure. And she had brown hair fine, and she had like,  a little beauty mark– I have like extra pigmentation on my face or whatever, so she had a matching one.

K: Oh, yeah.

E: Not like a mole, but like a Marilyn Monroe kind of dot.

K: Yeah yeah, I’ve seen your face.

E: Yes you have, you’re looking at it right now. Point being, she never had a wheelchair, she never had a walker, you know?

K: Yeah. I think when our transcriber showed me I believe…and it’s been a while since I’ve looked but I think that most of the Disability adaptations, aside from the backstories I guess, but most of them were accessories. So if you already had an American Girl Doll, you can totally make them Disabled which I was like, that’s great!

E: Oh yeah, like you can buy a mini hearing aid for Molly, or Samantha or Felicity even though that doesn’t really make any sense because Felicity is from the 1700s so I’m pretty sure hearing aids didn’t exist back then. 

K: (Laughs) Oh, yeah. 

But it woulda been so cool. Every year I would get the American Girl catalogue around the holidays. I guess they finally figured out statistically that I aged out of that category. It woulda been nice to flip through and feel seen. None of my toys ever made me feel seen. Like, I don’t know…did yous? Like what did you play with?

K: No. I read books and I played video games. And sometimes in those books  related to the main characters as characters and sometimes in video games I would relate to the characters but they never looked like me. I mean, never, ever. And when I would relate to whatever I was doing it was more in terms of like, personality traits but never. I used to think… this is a hit if a thing that I did kind of a 180 on. I used to not mock representation but I used to value it a lot less than I do now. Because I was always one one of those people who was like hey, “If you can relate to a character what does it matter if they look like you?” But like, you only need to see so many happy little children receiving dolls that look like them who are disabled to realize that like physical representation matters to a lot of people in a huge way. And so while that not have been my specific cup of tea, this is still super important. Like I’m just looking at this right now, they have a Diabetes Care Kit! Like if you have Juvenile DIabetes? I have no idea what that’s like, but even just reading that, that’s so cool. 

E: I think we’re forgetting a bg aspect of this here. What about kids that don’t have disabilities? LIke isn’t it just nice that random kids on Christmas who don’t have hearing loss can get  American Girl Doll that has hearing loss? Like, that’s cool!

K: And she’s cool! She’s like, a surfer, and she’s also deaf. 

E: I mean, I’ll point out that I have larger problems with American Girls Dolls because I feel like they do kind of give that false ideal of like the cool girl and then also like, she’s white, There’s a lot of diversity lacking here. She’s from California, like we’re not being super intersectional here. 

K: Yeah, okay but they sell diverse dolls don’t they?

E: Oh they do, they absolutely do! But I think a lot of the Diversity wins that we tend to celebrate in the Toy Industry are usually like, “That’s a White Barbie.” Like, now they have a Black Barbie who uses a wheelchair. Like, that’s a White American Girl Doll. So it’s still…It’s this slow, limited roll. Pun intended, roll. 

K: Yeah, that’s true. I mean, I don’t know enough about American Girl but yeah that speaks to a much larger issue. 

E: He says as he’s shopping on the website about to put the Juvenile Diabetes Care Kit in his Cart!

K: I’m totally on the website! You’re gosh dang right! I’m doing exactly that. 

E: What did you Google? Or did you just go on American Girl.com

K: I typed in “American Girl Disabilities,” I clicked on the website, I landed on the page with the Berry Wheelchair, and in the Related Products there was the “Feel Better Kit” with hospital crutches and a cast, regular “Arm Crutches for Dolls” which looks suspiciously like the ones I used as a kid, and then next to that is the “Diabetes Care Kit.” With like real Bandaids

E:  Heehee.. “With real Band-Aids” 

K: Look, I’m all for intersectionality okay but I’m just saying those people who are putting in the work are putting in a lot of effort. 

E: I do think that the Berry Wheelchair is actually pretty cute!

K: Yeah. I wonder if the brakes work, they look like they do. 

E: I like it quite a lot, I mean it’s still a little Hospital Wheelchair-y but all things considered, I think they did a good job. 

K: You know, I didn’t even realize that until you said it but you’re absolutely right. 

E: Adjustable footrests!

K: See, like that’s what I’m talking about! They didn’t have to do that, but they did!

E: That’s so charming! Anyway, yeah I think American Girl also has that sort of advantage because they have backstories that come with their dolls so even if there’s not visible disability representation they can still add Disability to the backstory.

K: See I think that’s cool in a different way. (21:11) Because that appeals to people who are like. Like, kids won’t do this but sometimes you get older people who are like, “Well I don’t get why there has to be a diverse character. Like, why can’t they just be Gay, why can’t they just be Disabled? Why can’t they just be Black? Why does it have to be such a thing?”  And it’s just like, “Well they’re people, they’re everywhere.” And it’s like, if you make it part of the background…Those people are contrarians they’re but like that should satisfy something like that where it’s like, “This is not their whole identity but it is a part of it that should be respected.”

E: Well I think that’s the point of all these toys in general

K: Oh for sure!

E: It’s not your whole identity, it’s just an interesting part of you. Although, my mom and I were joking it is kind of funny that the new American Girl Doll, Joss is a surfer with a hearing aid because you have to take your hearing aid off when you surf because there’s no such thing as a waterproof hearing aid.

K: Okay, I didn’t know that…But see that’s the kind of thing that we would complain about, so let’s do that. I just learned that from you just now. But…they should’ve…I mean, they have infinite money and resources relative to us so I mean, c’mon. 

E: It’s not really a complaint, it’s more of an irony. That’s not to say that people who are deaf can’t be surfers, I’m not saying that.

K: No, no they just can’t wear their hearing aids when they surf, which makes sense.

E: Which is why it’s funny to me. Because it’s like, do they not realize that she’s holding her surfboard and wearing her hearing aid at the same time? And like, one gotta go?

K: Didn’t wheelchair Becky not fit into the Barbie DreamHouse? 

E: Ugh!  Yes, okay. Share a Smile Becky… First of all, terrible name, second of all, made my parents go everywhere to find her.  Everywhere. So I had Share a Smile Becky, but no, she didn’t fit into the Barbie DreamHouse.  Barbie DreamHouse didn’t have an elevator! I’ve heard Barbie DreamHouse is now more Accessible, but still!

K: Wait, but was that an official Mattel product?

E: Share a Smile Becky? Yeah!

K: Oh, okay. Because I’m just curious, I guess they didn’t think of it. 

E: Of course not. It was “We’re being so progressive! … Oops!”

K: At the time though it was, wasn’t it? I’m not defending them..I think it’s silly 

E: Of course it was I mean I absolutely went bananas when my parents got it for me. I was thrilled. 

K: I’m trying to think of a better–not a better example, a different example from dolls though. 

E: That’s kind of illustrating the problem though

K: Yeah. Let’s turn that into a positive. That does illustrate the problem we’re trying to solve. 

E: Disability is just not something that’s integrated in the toy industry yet in the way that we would like it to be. 

K: Like, there’s been a few in video games but those aren’t toys traditionally. Like you play with them but you don’t play with them.  

E: Well okay so toys and games then. 

K: It’s a little bit better in video games but even when I’m thinking about it I can only name a handful in the last five to ten years, which relative to the amount of video games is hardly any. 

E: What about board games? I don’t think there’s ever been a Disabled character in a board game that I’ve played. 

K: If you’re a board game nerd and you’ve ever seen a Disabled character in a board game please DM us. I know that board game nerds are everywhere and we’re certainly not them. But like, if you know of a disabled character in a board game please email us because we’ll play that sh*t. 

E: Yeah I mean, okay Clue. LIke I’m always Miss Peacock. 

K: I’m always Colonel Mustard. 

E: Great, super. Very much on brand for both of us

(Both laugh)

K: But why can’t they be disabled? The game is the same!

E: Right? Because it isn’t sexy

K: I was gonna say murder is sexy but IRL murder really isn’t sexy. But like Fantasy Murder Mystery? Extremely sexy. 

E: Oh I’m sorry, Mrs. Peacock. It’s Miss Scarlet. Anyway, point being there are no Disabled board game characters that I’m aware of. Are we googling this on the fly?

K: I’m Googling it. 

E: I mean, yeah. Disability is nowhere in most of my childhood. I know you mentioned books for a second…Definitely not a toy or a game but when I was little my parents had to specially order  a couple of books for me that had Disabled. One of them was called Patrick and Emma Lou and they were going to Physical Therapy. So it was literally a book about Disabled kids going to physical therapy. And then there was another one called Andy Finds a Turtle about a disabled boy named Andy who found a turtle. 

K: Charles Lawlson in “A Wrinkle in Time” was pretty autistic. They didn’t say “He was Autistic” but like, he was Autistic.

E: I mean, I’m sure lots of kids saw themselves in him but there’s such a lack of “Hey, Disability Representation in this children’s book, in this toy, in this game!”

K: Actually, I Googled “disabled board game characters” and all that came up was a list of video game characters. I’m just going through the list and it’s valid but it’s a little bit contrived. #1 is a guy from Deus Ex which is about a guy who loses a lot of his limbs and his organs and has to be cyborg-ified. So like, yeah he’s disabled and that’s totally valid but like  it’s his superpower, it’s why he’s the main character. I’m not saying that’s not a really cool thing, it’s actually a really cool role for a person with a disability but that’s like calling Inspector Gadget disabled, like would you? I wouldn’t but he technically is!

E: Interesting. Interesting indeed. I hadn’t thought about Inspector Gadget. But yeah I mean..Oh I had something I was gonna say and I can’t remember. (Jazzy interlude music plays) 

I remember what my point was! We’ve been talking a lot about Mainstream brand toys. We’ve been talking a lot about how you can get a Barbie, you can get a Video game. We haven’t talked at all about there have been people who have been filling this gap for a long time by creating these dolls and selling them on Etsy. Creating toys that represent bodily diversity. Creating little prosthetics  for an American Girl Doll, creating a wheelchair for a Barbie, like there were people who were doing this independently long before the toy industry decided they were gonna catch up. And I feel like we need to acknowledge the fact that people have been trying to fill these gaps. 

K: I completely agree. That was an excellent point. 

E: Now for my Final Takeaway, my final takeaway is we’re coming somewhat far in the disability toy diversity situation…We have so much further to go, we have so much more to do. And I really hope that by the time I have children hypothetically, if that’s a thing I’m going to do, that whether that kid has a Disability or not, I can hand them a doll who has a Disability, or has a disability backstory or I can get them a LEGO set from the shelf of Target that I didn’t have to special order. Because I know that LEGO has a little wheelchair and I feel like they have a little Accessible bus, but I think you have to special order this stuff. I just don’t want it to be special!

K: Yeah, there ya go! Disability doesn’t need to be special any more, it never did we were always 20% of the population!

E: What’s your final takeaway?

K: My Final Takeaway is: I love what American Girl is doing but I just wanna reiterate, if you’re someone who is like how I used to be, consider how you would’ve felt when you were younger especially if you were disabled. How cool it would’ve been to receive something or to be able to buy or interact with something that looks like you. That really isn’t much of a finally takeaway but it really is something that I completely changed my mind on. And I don’t think I’m alone in having that thought so I wanted to say it again for anyone who might be feeling that way. And also, you look great today. 

E: You do look great today!

K: This has been another episode of The Accessible Stall. I am Kyle, she is Emily you are fantastic

E: Thanks so much for bearing with me while I tried to figure out what the heck my point was!

K: See ya next time!

Emily:                                       Hi, I’m Emily Ladau.

Kyle:                                         I’m Kyle Khachadurian.

Emily:                                       You’re listening to one of our new favorite episodes of The Accessible Stall and we haven’t even recorded it.

Kyle:                                         How do you already know that, Emily?

Emily:                                       Because we officially have our coolest guest ever today.

Kyle:                                         Who could that be?

Emily:                                       Can you introduce yourself, Mystery Guest?

RH:                                           My name is Ryan J. Haddad.

Emily:                                       I’m so excited. Ryan is a big deal in case you don’t already know, really big deal. Anyway, he’s royalty, and we have him on our show and we’re pretty excited about it. We think you should all be excited about it, too. Ryan, can you tell us a little bit about who you are for the peasants at home who don’t know?

RH:                                           Oh my goodness. This is overwhelming. I love it though because I love both of you, but it’s overwhelming. I’m fine. I’m getting over it. Glamour. Glamour. I am an actor,  playwright, and autobiographical performer and up until very recently I was primarily known for my solo plays about myself.

                                                Now, I am also known as a recurring character on the new Netflix series, The Politician. I play the character of Andrew, who is known for his sardonic wit, his Hawaiian shirts that feature leopards, and his walker, frankly, let’s just be honest about that. Thank you. That’s who I am. I’m Ryan J. Haddad. I think I’m done introducing myself.

Kyle:                                         Awesome. It was perfect.

Emily:                                       That’s a perfect introduction.

Kyle:                                         Oh man.

RH:                                           I’m letting you guys host, so you tell– what do I say next?

Emily:                                       Yes, we got a whole list of questions for you. Don’t you worry.

RH:                                           My favorite flavor of popcorn, or like what?

Emily:                                       Actually, you know what? Tell us your favorite flavor of popcorn. That was–

RH:                                           There’s only one and it’s just standard popcorn with butter because if you… caramel corn, I can tolerate, but cheese popcorn, absolutely not; also, never kettle corn. I mean why on earth? It’s like hell. Why?

Emily:                                       Really?

Kyle:                                         I had no idea that there were people so passionate about popcorn.

RH:                                           It’s fake. Then people are holding a bucket of popcorn and like, “Do you want some?” and it is kettle corn, that’s a betrayal.

Emily:                                       I mean I have to say this is all actually very relevant because you eat popcorn while you’re watching movies. When you’re a movie star, you can tell people that they’re not allowed to eat kettle corn during a screening of your movie. That seems totally reasonable.

Kyle:                                         That’s true. Yes, it’s a good point.

RH:                                           I am not yet a movie star, maybe perhaps someday. Until then, I’m just here on this podcast telling people that kettle corn is forbidden.

Emily:                                       Fair. No kettle corn. We are not sponsored by the makers of kettle corn…

RH:                                           So true.

Emily:                                       … and now, we never will be. Thanks so much, Ryan.

RH:                                           You can always cut this out if you’re really wanting to butter up, but it’s not even butter because it’s kettle corn.

Emily:                                       Now, we can’t cut it. He made a popcorn joke.

Kyle:                                         Yes, we want to know. Can you tell us how you landed the role of Andrew in The Politician? Were they seeking someone disabled for that part, or did you just show up?

RH:                                           I did not just show up. They were actively seeking somebody specifically with cerebral palsy. The line, ”I have cerebral palsy and I like getting high” was in the audition side. They were very deliberate about their desire to be inclusive and to make a character that was going to wreak some havoc and stir some thoughts, but have this part of his identity which was… so specifically cerebral palsy.

                                                He had to be able to be believably high school which at the time, I was like, “Interesting. Okay,” but thrilled to do it, of course. I knew because Ben Platt was attached for years in advance of the audition. I knew that like, “Okay. If the people playing high school are in their… if they’re all their mid-20s, it sort of equals this all out.”

                                                I just sent in the tape. I was actually working on a… developing a new play that I had written at Berkeley Repertory Theatre and they asked me to come in New York and I was in Berkeley so I just sent in a tape. It was two scenes and then I didn’t hear anything for a while and then I heard that I probably got it. They couldn’t officially say, but I probably got it.

                                                The first actual, real notification which I was surprised that this is how I found out was that Ben Platt had put many of the regular cast members into… regular and recurring cast members into an Instagram thread. It said like, “Welcome to the show. I’m so excited for what we’re going to make.” I was like, “Oh, I guess I got… I guess it’s real I guess.”

Kyle:                                         That’s awesome.

RH:                                           Yes, it was really fun. Then I had to call some people and be like, “I need to know for su–” This is real. I screamed and shouted and it was like, “This is real.” Then I had to do some business stuff after that. After the euphoria of this message from the fairy god person that was Ben Platt, I was like, “Okay. Now, I actually need to make sure I’m hired.”

Kyle:                                         Right.

Emily:                                       Right, like, “Is this an April Fool’s joke, or are we actually doing this?”

Kyle:                                         Yes.

RH:                                           Right, but it all worked out and we filmed in December and Fall of 2018.

Kyle:                                         That’s awesome. I can’t even imagine that feeling. Did you have any input in how Andrew would be developed in terms of a character?

RH:                                           Not actually with the writing but when I was cast they first… at first, the breakdown said he was a sophomore and that he was 16. Then the audition scene came through and it was implied that he was going to college. I was like, “Okay, so maybe they have bumped him up.”

                                                By the time I was cast, he was rebuilt as a high school senior. Also, I guess in terms of the writing, no, I didn’t have creative input but they did say like, “We want you to use the mobility device that you’re most comfortable with,” which I thought was really great.

Kyle:                                         That is cool.

RH:                                           He had been written to use the scooter. Frankly, if they had asked me to use a scooter, on day one they would learn very quickly that I don’t know how to drive, no matter what kind of device it is.  So it was very generous of them to be able to just right off the bat, they said, “You can use your walker. No problem at all.” I guess those would be the two things that they aged him up slightly to match my real age, or match what could believably be my age; and then they changed him from a motorized scooter to a walker.

Emily:                                       I mean–

Kyle:                                         That’s really cool to me.

Emily:                                       The walker thing is a big deal though because I don’t know about you, but when I see people who don’t have command of a certain piece of mobility equipment using it in a role, I can very clearly tell.

RH:                                           Sure. I’m not sure how familiar you are with my resume but my very first television credit, which was absolutely zero lines of dialogue at all, but I was next to Jeff Goldblum for about 15 seconds.

Emily:                                       Excuse me while I fan myself.

Kyle:                                         That’s so cool.

RH:                                           It was Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt. It was very deliberately a motorized scooter. I don’t know if I like lied and said that I could, but I definitely was bumping into furniture on that set. The take that made it in, I looked like I have some command of it, but anyone who was actually watching me that day was like, “This person has never operated machinery in his life.”

Emily:                                       This is a lie.

RH:                                           Why on earth? Anyway, that was Thomas Fletching and his syndrome with a disease so rare that they made it after him. I just thought it was a writing choice that Thomas could not speak and so I had no line, but it was fun. Jeff Goldblum said that we looked alike. He said it, not I, which was a very big a surprise to me because I think that he is one of the sexiest people on earth.

                                                By extension then, I will extend that complement to our friend Kyle here because Kyle and I have often said that we look like twins.

Kyle:                                         We are though.

RH:                                           So if Jeff Goldblum says that I look like him, by extension, you also look like Jeff Goldblum. I think that we should just play his sons in a movie sometime.

Kyle:                                         I couldn’t agree more. Every word of that sentence made it better and I love it so much.

RH:                                           I’ve tried to talk to you about playing me in the future and you’ve said that you’re not an actor, but we can work on that, I’m telling you.

Kyle:                                         You know what? I think it’s time for a career change, Emily.

Emily:                                       I mean if you have a voice for a podcast, maybe it’s time to see if you have a face for the screen.

Kyle:                                         It’s funny bec–

RH:                                           He definitely does.

Kyle:                                         It’s funny, Ryan, you posted a before and after, I mean in Netflix did and you just shared it, but–

RH:                                           Netflix did it and I started crying. I was like, “Netflix can… what are you doing to me?  Making me emotional.”

Kyle:                                         That before picture could have been me. It was ridiculous, I showed my parents. It’s like, “Look at this kid, he looks just like me.”

RH:                                           …You know what? When I was little, I used to have a theater company called the Haddad Theatre. By that I mean I just made my parents and family put on place in the living room and backyard. There was a time when I really believed for several months in kindergarten that we were going to do The Parent Trap, a live version of The Parent Trap.

Kyle:                                         Oh my god.

RH:                                           That was difficult because I’m not a twin so how do you do that if it’s like…? Oh, that would imply that the gender would have changed. I think I really was like… I was buddies with this little blonde boy in kindergarten and I thought that we could conceivably be twins, me and this little blonde boy.

                                                But if only I had known that there was a Kyle out there who looked exactly like me, we could have done The Parent Trap live from the backyard of the Haddad family in Parma, Ohio.

Kyle:                                         I feel like we could still do that, maybe not necessarily from your backyard.

Emily:                                       Can you please sign me up? Because first of all, the Lindsay Lohan version of The Parent Trap is the actual best movie ever made.

RH:                                           It was the definition of our childhood. I watched it on a daily basis.

Emily:                                       I love that movie and– [0:13:11 crosstalk]. Oh my god.

RH:                                           Now, who would you play, Emily? Would you play Chessy?

Emily:                                       Yes, I like Chessy because she’s sassy, and I don’t think I could play the mom. She’s a little bit too–

RH:                                           Not opposite. No, not opposite. Not opposite me and Kyle, you could not play the mom.

Emily:                                       Yes, I can be Chessy. I could be one of the angry camp counselors.

RH:                                           You know what? I wasn’t going to reduce you to a day-play role. I wasn’t going to do that.

Emily:                                       Thank you.

RH:                                           I wanted you to have a nice salary.

Emily:                                       Alternatively, can I just direct this or produce this?

RH:                                           I look forward to that. I mean I think we couldn’t be in better hands.

Emily:                                       I’m delighted. Also, love The Parent Trap, love you two. This is great. Let’s make some dreams come true right now. You heard it here first.

RH:                                           Of course, you had to watched the Hayley Mills’ version, from the ’60s?

Emily:                                       Of course, the original?

RH:                                           Yes.

Emily:                                       Yes, but–

RH:                                           But you watched Lindsay first because we were young.

Emily:                                       Yes, and also because I’m a cultural failure and think that the Lindsay Lohan version is way better than the original.

RH:                                           I didn’t say… I don’t have an opinion. I don’t think that’s a cultural failure. I think that’s a very… for instance, I think that Sister Act 2 is supremely better than Sister Act 1.

Emily:                                       That’s saying something because a lot of sequels aren’t that great. I have not seen Sister Act 2, so I can’t speak for this.

RH:                                           Oh my gosh. Many people would tell you that I’m dead wrong, but I was raised on the Sister Act 2. Before The Parent Trap came out, the movie that I watched every day was Sister Act 2. I hope to sort of become famous enough in a short enough period of time that Whoopi Goldberg will still be appearing on The View and I can go on to The View and then just cry at her face.

Emily:                                       I’m going to do–

RH:                                           You had questions, didn’t you?

Emily:                                       I’m going to do my best to somehow bring this all around from production of The Parent Trap in your backyard to crying in front of Whoopi Goldberg.   So…

RH:                                           Gorgeous.

Emily:                                       I think that actually is a good segue into the question that I was going to ask because you played the role of Andrew in The Politician. That role was a disabled character, but it seems like in your early acting career trying to put together a live-action version of The Parent Trap… or not live action, but a live theatrical performance of The Parent Trap that you were clearly unconcerned with whether or not the twins actually had disabilities or not. My question–

RH:                                           In our version of The Parent Trap, you know what I mean? When I was–

Emily:                                       I mean they’re definitely going to be disabled in this new version that we’re doing with you and me and Kyle.

RH:                                           For sure. I was, you’re right. [0:16:32 I’m in a good position].

Emily:                                       Would you rather be known as a disabled actor or just an actor?

RH:                                           No, I’m an actor. That’s it. I’m an actor, but it’s not that I’m ashamed if somebody calls me a disabled actor.  That’s also a true statement, it’s literally a fact. I’m a disabled actor, but I would like to be known as an actor and a playwright and a solo performer. A lot of my solo work talks about disability. Some shows primarily are about disabilities, some shows are not.

                                                There’s a play of mine that I’ve written that doesn’t… that is actually the thing I was at Berkeley Repertory Theatre working on. That’s about my gay uncle and my family and so it’s six actors plus me. That play has nothing to do with the disability at all. In that the character of Ryan… autobiographically of the character Ryan is just a member of the family and he is disabled, the walker’s there.

                                                But I actually believe …I’m not good at sound bites so forgive me for this. No matter what character I play ever, unless I’m sitting behind a desk, right, and you can’t see any kind of mobility difference, the character becomes disabled. It doesn’t matter if I’m in a revival of a play or a revival of a musical, or it’s a character in a film or TV show that wasn’t written to be disabled.  If Andrew, in fact, had not been written to be disabled in The Politician and I played him, then therefore he would have become disabled because you can’t un-see it. There it is.

Kyle:                                         Right.

RH:                                           There are people with invisible disabilities that the line is different and that it’s not a such hard like, “And yes, this character is now disabled.”   But in my case, it’s there. So I am an actor. I’m a disabled actor. I wouldn’t necessarily want to… I do not, in fact, when I was recently searching for acting representation, I do not…

                                                I told everyone that I spoke to and ultimately the one that I chose, who I adore, I said, “I do not want to only be considered for parts that were written to be disabled. I should be considered for every single, funny, gay character in their mid-20s, every single one.” Why on earth am I not being considered…?

Kyle:                                         And you should play every single one, too,  as  far as I’m concerned.

RH:                                           No. I mean there’s a big pool. Right, but I would at least like to be able to read the scene. I’d like to be able to go to the audition room, do my two minutes. Thank you. Goodbye. Right? That’s not always an opportunity that is afforded to actors who are disabled.

                                                But I do believe that if I booked one of those roles, the character would, by extension, even if it’s never talked about, if I’m standing there with a walker, he’s disabled. There it is. Does that answer the question?

Emily:                                       Yes, it totally does.

Kyle:                                         It sure does.

Emily:                                       The reason that I was really curious about it is because something that I’ve noticed as someone who very involved in the disability activism world and also as someone who has done some coverage of actors who identify as disabled, I’ve noticed that there still tends to be this pigeonholing of actors who have disabilities where they’re known as “the disabled actor.” So I was just curious to know how you perceived that and how you identify yourself. I think that you definitely covered that.

RH:                                           Yes. I don’t have more to say.

Kyle:                                         That was a perfect segue into my next question which was, have you ever actively experienced discrimination in your pursuits of finding acting jobs because of your disability? If yes, can you please tell us about it?

RH:                                           Interesting.

Kyle:                                         I mean I guess it’s one of those things were you don’t know but you know.

RH:                                           Sure.

Kyle:                                         Have you ever felt like you have?

RH:                                           Not in a professional setting.

Kyle:                                         Really? 

RH:                                           No, not professionally but I’ve only been acting professionally for four years. I graduated from undergrad in Central Ohio in May of 2015.  So I’ve been a professional actor for four years and I have, primarily, not all the time, but primarily was creating my own work as I said. I’m a writer/performer, so I’m primarily creating my own work.

                                                When I have gone into an audition setting, a lot of times it’s because they’re looking for disabled people, sometimes not, but never have I felt, “Oh, I didn’t get something because of…” or no, not professionally. But I will say that I mean it certainly happened when I was young. Again, as you said, you don’t know but you know, right?

Kyle:                                         Right.

RH:                                           There were roles that I wanted that I probably would have been great for, but I was often given roles… as a teenager, I’m playing the grandfather, or I’m playing the older uncle, or I’m playing the father. There’s something in which the walker makes sense. Actually, my first Youth Theater… no, I don’t know, qualify time because I started acting with people my own age at the age of seven, right?

                                                I went into auditions and often when I didn’t get a part I would be struck with, did I not get the part because I wasn’t right for it, or did I not get the part that I… because of the disability? Did I get this other part instead if I did get cast? Did I get this other part instead because of the walker?

                                                Was I not seen for the lead role because I was better as a comedian actor with a supporting role, or is it because I had a walker and they didn’t know what to do with the walker?

I just touched the walker if you heard a note. So those kinds of questions, which started in my early to mid-teens and went all the way through high school and sometimes even in to college, those sort of if a particular director I wasn’t sure about, or were they sure about me and my abilities as an actor or otherwise?  I was always second-guessing and I was unsure.

When I arrived at Ohio Wesleyan University, which is the college that I went to,  I remember telling them in my theatre, I’ll never forget, that I was going to be a playwright and director because I didn’t think based on what I had experienced in high school in Youth Theater.

                                                I had some wonderful experiences with some wonderful people, wonderful directors, but there were other experiences and other times when I was like, “Hmm, interesting.” I realized, “Oh, I’m probably not going to be able to make it as an actor who looks the way I do, or has the mobility difference that I have.”

Also, we weren’t seeing it on the TV at that time.  What we were seeing, we were seeing Glee in which the character of Artie was played by a non-disabled actor. We were seeing other iterations of that same kind of thing, and so  I just said like, “I’m going to be a playwright and a director. I’m going to be behind the scenes, and maybe I’ll write some stuff for people who are disabled,” but I didn’t think I was going to be writing for myself. I didn’t think it was going to be solo work. I didn’t know what the heck solo work was. I was just like, “That’s weird performance arc.”

But I was writing in the English department. I was a double major in creative writing and theater. I was writing personal essays, freshman and sophomore year, and I was starting to write short plays, which were fake fiction. They were not fictionalized plays at all, but I would like to give people different names, but it would really be me, or it would be a version of me in a made up circumstance, or it would be two family members of mine in a made circumstance without me being the character. Those are the kinds of plays that I was writing, but they were not very good. They were not very good plays.

                                                Then my mentor in solo performance, Tim Miller, came from Los Angeles for a week-long workshop. He sprinkled his magic fairy dust. He said, “You, in fact, can be doing these personal essays on the stage as solo plays or performances.”

Suddenly, it all clicked because I’m a very skilled performer. I’m a very talented performer because of timing, because of comedy because of wit, because of the way that I know how to…

                                                As Hannah Gadsby… we all adore Hannah Gadsby, bow down to Hannah Gadsby, says, “Very frankly, I know how to manipulate an audience.”   And that is what you’re doing when you’re standing there by yourself. You’re manipulating them to feel a certain way at a certain time and then suddenly, yanking them a different way and now making them something else.

                                                I realized that overtime, it wasn’t instantaneous like “This is what I should be doing;” but I realized overtime that that was where I really excelled as a performer and also as a writer. Some of my best writing is autobiographical monologue. I’m very proud of this new play that is about my family that has other people in it. I knew this is what I do well and so that is what I’m going to keep doing.

                                                I believe that the reason I have subsequently booked other work professionally that I didn’t write or create is because someone somewhere, whether it was a casting director, or a fellow actor who then recommended me to a casting director, or it was a director, it’s because people have seen my work on the stage. So I’m hoping to now be at the nexus where my writing, my autobiographical writing, it’s not all solo I’d say, my autobiographical writing is going to get me more acting work in theater, film, and television and then also… and this is a particularly new phenomenon that my work on television in The Politician specifically is getting theaters who were not necessarily interested in producing my plays last season or the season before suddenly now are like, “Oh, hmm!  We would like to consider that play that you’ve sent us four times.”

                                                I’m happy to write that way and use that new notoriety even though the plays are the same as they were, right, to get my work seen for–

Emily:                                       I’d  ride the hell out of that wave just… yes.

Kyle:                                         Yes, do it.

Emily:                                       I have a question for you as someone who has already said that you want to very much straightforwardly be called not just “the disabled actor” but “an actor.” Although, you will obviously acknowledge that disability is part of who you are and that calling yourself a disabled actor is definitely an accurate statement, but what is your take on the big controversy around whether only disabled people should play disabled characters?

                                                Because, for example, you mentioned Artie from Glee before and on the one hand, I remember being excited to see Artie on Glee  because, “Oh, there’s a wheelchair user as a character.”   But on the other hand I was super frustrated when I learned early on that… I think it’s Kevin McHale wasn’t a wheelchair user in real life and so I was frustrated by that.

                                                I know that it’s maybe a bit challenging to talk about because you have the obvious bias of being someone who’s disabled and also an actor, but I’m very interested to hear your take on the controversy.

RH:                                           Right. I mean I don’t understand why it’s a controversy in this time. In the year 2019, it should not be a controversy, no one should… they just shouldn’t. Disabled characters should not be played by non-disabled actors today. Because today there are disabled actors who are not getting work and who are not being considered for other opportunities; and so it should… you are correct that it is complicated.

                                                Let me go back in time because first of all, let’s praise Ryan Murphy and Ryan Murphy Productions because look at where we are now versus where we were. They’ve written a character with cerebral palsy and said, “We only want to see people with cerebral palsy,” and I got the part because of that active, deliberate… what word am I … It was a deliberate effort that they made to be inclusive in the right way. That was also Glee, ten years ago was a Ryan Murphy show. It was.

Emily:                                       Yes.

RH:                                           I loved it and I went to all the concerts. I went to the live concerts and I was absolutely, literally obsessed with it. I also, because I wasn’t yet a professional actor, was not as in tune with the idea that this was not correct that the character of Artie should have been played by a disabled actor. I didn’t really register that.   So I was also, like you, Emily, thrilled to see a wheelchair user on television. The moment that I became upset was the first time that he, in a dream sequence, got out of his chair…

Emily:                                       Was that The Safety Dance?

RH:                                           I don’t remember what song it was, or what–

Emily:                                       I actually remember pretty clearly when he got up and started dancing because I was also upset at that exact moment.

Kyle:                                         Oh my god.

RH:                                           I was completely enraged, but I had not previously been enraged. Prior to that, I was like, “How fabulous, look at him. Love this actor. Love his character. Love the story. Wonderful. Yes, we exist in high school. Hooray!” and then I became enraged when he stood up out of his chair in a dream sequence because I don’t know about the two of you, and frankly, whenever I’ve mentioned this anecdote in… it’s not often and I’m very grateful I want to say, to be a guest on a podcast with two disabled individuals because I can now actually ask you this question. I don’t dream of not being disa– like when I go to sleep and I dream or I’m daydreaming, I do magically not have a walker, I suddenly, I’m not disabled.

                                                It’s like, “To me, that’s completely absurd because that what I…” Literally, when I’ve known every single day of my life since I had consciousness. You know what I mean?

Kyle:                                         Yes.

RH:                                           I recognize that there are people in certain parts of the country who are raised by certain types of parents who, for better or worse, wish that they were not disabled, pity themselves, are pitied by other people or the people who love them, people around them. That exists in America today and the world today, so it is possible that there are individuals who are in wheelchairs who would dream of being out of them and doing a dance number, but that was just never me.

                                                If I was going to do a dance number in a musical, and you know that I have dreamed up many of them, the walker was always going to be at the center of it. It was going to be a big moment. There would be a kick line and I wouldn’t be kicking in the kick line, or I’d be doing something fabulous where they would lift me in the air and I’d have all this wonderfully…

                                                That’s what I dream about, but it’s not to erase me and the part of my identity. I’m curious, have you fantasized about not being disabled?

Emily:                                       Never. Oh my god. Kyle and I have–

Kyle:                                         No.

Emily:                                       — I’m sorry. I just realized I’m about to speak for you, but I think you’ll–

Kyle:                                         No.

Emily:                                       — agree.

Kyle:                                         Go ahead. I’ll say my piece.

Emily:                                       It would be super great if we could take a pill that would cure the pain, the daily chronic pain that comes with being disabled, but never actually curing ourselves. I personally cannot imagine any part of my life without my wheelchair. It’s funny because in the very few dreams that I’ve had where I’m not in my wheelchair for whatever reason and have somehow been walking, my feet are heavy like giant bags of sand are attached to them and I can barely move them.

                                                I feel like that must be my unconscious mind being like, “Are you kidding me? This is not realistic. Stop that.”

So yes, I have no fantasies of not a wheelchair-using Emily; just fantasies of maybe people not being such jerks about it.

RH:                                           That’s not us.

Emily:                                       Yes, that’s not us at all.

RH:                                           That’s the world.

Kyle:                                         In my dreams I’m constantly doing things that I can’t do, like I’m riding a bike, but in my dream, I know that this isn’t right. You know what I mean? How am I doing this? Because I’m definitely still disabled in my dream, but as far as fantasies of being non-disabled, I don’t know. Sometimes I wake up and I’m like, “This sucks,” but then I’m like, “Not really. I’m good.”

RH:                                           What I will say is that I don’t publicly not use my walker a lot, but I am able to walk without the walker, like in my own apartment. When I become very comfortable in a space, I’m able to park the walker somewhere and just walk around and I hold on to things for support. But there are these moments when I catch myself in a mirror when I don’t have the walker and I don’t look the way that I think I look in my brain.

                                                I always think in my brain that I look straighter than I actually am. There was even a caricature done very recently of me, I did a reprogram, it’s at Joe’s Pub. But it’s a caricature and so things are exaggerated in the caricature, but in the caricature Ryan, his legs are not straight and that is fascinating to me. If I were to look at a photo of me in the same set, I know that would be true and that the artist was just drawing accurately.

                                                I love the image that was created. I mean I was thrilled, but it’s very interesting to see my knee not… I don’t know, it’s at an angle. It’s very interesting for me to see that in a drawing because that is what the world sees. Sometimes in my brain I trick myself into thinking that I look more suave and steady than I actually–

Kyle:                                         I do that all the time. When I say I don’t see myself as disabled, I mean that very literally. When I see myself on camera or a picture of myself, I’m like, “Who the hell is that?” I have that exact same thing going on with me.

Emily:                                       I definitely have these moments where… so, I have contractures in both of my arms so they don’t straighten past 90 degrees at the elbow. For me, it’s just natural. I make a weird movement when I’m reaching for something across the table because I can’t extend my arm all the way, so my elbow goes up in the air.

                                                Sometimes if I can see myself or a reflection while I’m doing it, I’m like, “That looks so weird.” It’s just a very, very strange thing to see yourself reflecting back at yourself like that. I guess that’s why having non-disabled people play disabled people has always been such a challenge for me because there are just certain mannerisms that, for the most part, you can’t master if that’s not your everyday life.

RH:                                           Because I’m also not thinking about it now.

Emily:                                       Right, you don’t have to think about it, it’s just when you are.

Kyle:                                         Yes, that’s the big thing.

RH:                                           It’s just like, “Oh, I did that with my hands? Interesting. Okay.”

Also, in the caricature my hands are waving. I talk with my hands all the time. My family always does, that’s just our family. We’re Lebanese American family. We’re always like gesture, gesture, gesture.  My gestures just look different than other people’s gestures, but that’s…

                                                Anyway, I think it’s a very poor taste these days in 2019 to cast a non-disabled actor in a disabled role. I just think it completely is. People are still doing it. Hollywood is still doing it. Theater is still doing it.

Emily:                                       All the time.

RH:                                           All the time. When I see it, especially on the stage, because I’m pretty in touch with the New York theater community, just the idea of like, “Was a disabled actor ever considered for that part that is disabled?”

Maybe they don’t say the word, but that is the truth of the character. “Why? It wasn’t? Interesting. Hmm.”

                                                That makes me… yes, especially in theater where I feel like they should know better than Hollywood. They do not have the problem of, “We need to sell tickets,” that Hollywood necessarily has.

Emily:                                       Although there is the problem of lack of accessible theaters. I think that because theaters are so old… I’m not an actor, but I have heard that there’s issues with a lot of older theaters not even having accessible backstage areas.

RH:                                           You’re not wrong. It’s correct.

Emily:                                       I don’t think it’s an excuse. I think it’s an excuse that you would be given, but I mean we’re all about authenticity here so we’re going to keep promoting the people who are keeping it real and doing it right.

RH:                                           Absolutely.

Kyle:                                         Speaking of promoting, since we’re about to wind down, do you mind just promoting yourself. Just go all out man.

RH:                                           I’m ready to do that. I remember when I talked to you about the little theater company that almost did  The Parent Trap but then didn’t.

Kyle:                                         Yes.

RH:                                           That was called the Haddad Theater. I have created a solo show. It’s not a solo play, it’s a cabaret about that called Falling For Make-Believe, and it is going to be Under the Radar Festival at the Public Theater in Joe’s Pub for four performances, January 8th, 12th, 16th, and 17th, 2020. I hope that you all come.

                                                Disability is not a primary focus, but there is certainly a moment. There is a scene in which disability is a theater artist is called into question for me at a young age. It’s a very lighthearted show that is very funny, filled with show tunes, all show tunes, and it will make you cry at the end because that’s just what I do.

                                                I know how manipulate an audience, but it’s a tribute to my family because it’s not that they just put on plays in the backyard for a few minutes, no. They did it from the time I was five until the time I was 13. That’s eight years, and we did ten shows in eight years. The final four were literally on a literal stage of our community center. People would come and they’d pay a dollar and they would see us put on the plays.

Emily:                                       Oh my god.

RH:                                           This is sort of my–

Emily:                                       What?

RH:                                           Yes.

Kyle:                                         Your family is amazing.

RH:                                           They’re extraordinary. Just some highlights. In 1998 we did a backyard version of Brandon’s Cinderella–

Emily:                                       Stop it.

RH:                                           — with no songs except for the song Falling In Love With Love, which is not even from Cinderella. They’ve put it into the movie. That is why the cabaret is called Falling For Make-Believe from that song, that Rodgers and Hart’s song. I played the prince opposite my 48 year old lesbian aunt at the time, Cinderella, which is just perfect casting I found.

                                                Then later in time, our final two shows when I was 13, both of them, I wasn’t out as a gay person yet, but I might as well have been because we did an adaptation of All About Eve called All About Ed in which I played the title role.  We did an adaptation of Annie called Andy  in which I played the title role.

Kyle:                                         Oh my god.

RH:                                           There are kinds of stories from this eight-year period, this 10-show period and I conjure all of these wonderful, zany, wacky family members who not only said like, “We’ll do it once,” but they literally did it 10 times. None of them had any ambition or interest in being performers, but they knew that I needed some outlet and that they could provide it for me in this way; and they did it.

                                                These are memories that have lasted certainly my whole life, but for many of them they’ve also been memories that we talk about. When family members are older and not as healthy as they used to be, we sit down and when we’re talking about the past those plays always come up. I used to think they were only memories that belong to me, but I realized now that they belong to the whole family.

                                                This is my gift to them and it’s very enjoyable. We did it for one performance at Joe’s Pub last year and within a week, I had the offer to do Under the Radar because it was such a big success. Even the waiters and waitresses, the servers were crying, I’m told.

So I hope everyone will come. Tickets are somewhat affordable. There is a small food and beverage minimum at Joe’s Pub, but it is certainly one of the more affordable cabaret venues in the city. It is part of Under the Radar at the Public Theater, January 8th, 12th, 16th, and 17th, Falling for Make-Believe. I have to sell 180 seats four times, so please come.

Emily:                                       Well Kyle and I will buy two tickets.

Kyle:                                         We will definitely help.

Emily:                                       We’re going to be there 100%. I’m bringing my boyfriend. You should probably tell your girlfriend to fly in.

Kyle:                                         She’s– [0:46:43 crosstalk] fly in all the way just to see.

RH:                                           No, she doesn’t have to fly in for this. Oh gosh no, please don’t do that. If she flies in it should be for you and only you. I also wanted to say every time I see fellow disabled friends who are couples, it gives me, a perpetually single person, great hope in the world for… and especially long, very long term relationships because I know… I don’t know, Kyle, how long you’ve been together but I know that Emily, it’s been a long time, right?

Emily:                                       It has.

RH:                                           That just makes me feel like he’s out there and I’ll find him sometime.

Emily:                                       We can totally make this a personal ad for you–

Kyle:                                         He is out there.

Emily:                                       — right now.

Kyle:                                         He is.

RH:                                           I mean I–

Kyle:                                         Yes, I mean just link this in your bios.

RH:                                           Sure. Everywhere you look, everywhere, that was almost quoting full house. I’m not going to finish…

Emily:                                       How could you not want to date Ryan everybody?

RH:                                           No, I just want to know–

Emily:                                       Unintentionally quote– [0:48:04 crosstalk].

RH:                                           I don’t know. It’s not like, “Dear God…” I’m not trying to inspiration for my friends because that’s not it, but as a disabled person to see you both in happy, committed relationships that have gone on for a while with beautiful people makes me very happy. I look forward to joining the club whenever I get admitted to the club.

Emily:                                       Everyone do me a favor and marry Ryan please. I would if I was a man and also gay.

Kyle:                                         Yes, line up. I would if I were single and also gay. If we could do it, so can you, other people listening to this.  

RH:                                           Thank you and good night. No. My plug was longer than the whole podcast.

Emily:                                       No, it’s fine.

RH:                                           All right.

Emily:                                       We had such a good time having you on. It’s funny, we usually, at the end of our episode, do a final takeaway but it’s hard to even pick one thing. I mean if you could say one thing to our listeners that you want them to take away from this, what would it be? Not pressure or anything.

RH:                                           From this 50 minutes that we just did?

Emily:                                       Yes. We always like to have a “too long, don’t read” even though it’s at the end then you have to listen to the whole thing before you get it.

RH:                                           Right. Takeaway would be coming to theatres soon, produced by Emily starring Kyle and Ryan, The Parent Trap another remake for this new generation of folks, and also the butter popcorn is the only popcorn. Thank you.

Emily:                                       Couldn’t have said it better myself.

Kyle:                                         I don’t even have a final takeaway except for, “Everyone, go follow Ryan.”

Emily:                                       Wait, no. Where can we follow you?

Kyle:                                         He is the best.

RH:                                           Thank you.

Emily:                                       You guys, all the social medias.

RH:                                           Thank you. Instagram, @ryanjhaddad, at R-Y-A-N-J-H-A, D as in dog, D as in dog, A as in apple, D as in dog.

Emily:                                       We enjoyed that.

RH:                                           I worked in a customer service job for a long time. When I had to give people my email over the phone, you know that’s how I did it. @ryanjhaddad on Instagram and Twitter. I don’t have a public Facebook page yet. You can follow me on my personal Facebook page, but I don’t post everything to be visible to followers on Facebook.

                                                If we’ve never met before and we have too many degrees of separation, I’m not going to accept your friend request on Facebook. It’s just I can’t do that. I love you all and thank you for listening, but I do encourage you to go follow me on Instagram and Twitter, especially Twitter because it’s really hard to get followers on Twitter. I don’t know what to do when I need to do to be a more popular tweeter.

Emily:                                       I have the opposite problem. I can’t grow my followers on Instagram, but Twitter I seemed to have figured it out. Maybe we need to exchange strategies here.

RH:                                           Sounds amazing. I look forward to our strategies. Actually, I wonder if we will record that for a future episode?

Emily:                                       Perhaps we will.

RH:                                           How to be a beautiful business disabled …

Kyle:                                         A beautiful business disable  [0:51:53 inaudible].I’ll also incorporate it.  Ryan, thank you so much for your time–

Emily:                                       We had the best time. This was fabulous

Kyle:                                         We appreciate it so, so much.  

RH:                                           As you know, I’m not bad at talking. My last request is going to be we need to meet in real life.

Emily:                                       Oh my god, yes.

RH:                                           Necessary…

Kyle:                                         Yes.

RH:                                           …and proper.

Emily:                                       We’re going to do that ASAP if you’re not too famous to hang out with us.

RH:                                           I’m not. I’m begging to hang out with you. I’m begging.

Emily:                                       When we plan, everyone will be jealous.

Kyle:                                         We’ll make that happen.

RH:                                           Yes, it will. We will put it on Insta–

Kyle:                                         It’ll get you a whole ton of Twitter followers.

RH:                                           We’re just going to put it on platforms, across all platforms.

Emily:                                       We’re only hanging out for the followers.

Kyle:                                         Hell yes.

RH:                                           I’m hanging out for the hugs.

Emily:                                       We think you’re great.

Kyle:                                         You are so wholesome.

RH:                                           Wholesome? You have not seen my work. If you think–

Kyle:                                         I’m talking strictly about this, right here.

Emily:                                       These 50 minutes. We look forward to seeing non-wholesome Ryan very soon.

RH:                                           Okay.  Under the Radar Ryan in January is wholesome Ryan. There is nothing non-wholesome in that show, but it’s because it’s a gift to all the family members.

Kyle:                                         That’s fair enough.

RH:                                           I didn’t want to hurt them by talking about nudity, but I do that in plenty of other works.

Emily:                                       You’re fabulous.

RH:                                           Love to both of you so much.

Emily:                                       Thank you for being on the show. On that note, we’re going to say, thanks for listening everyone.

Kyle:                                         Might we say, “You look great today.”

Emily:                                       Bye.

Kyle:                                         Thanks for listening.